North American/Uk differences

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mikejb

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Hi,

First I should say I am NOT an electrician, if I were I would maybe not be asking this question.

I am planning to return to the UK shortly and would like to bring some power tools I have purchased here in Canada. They are all expensive bits of kit and although I could seek them and re-purchase once I get to the UK, the UK prices for these tools is far from inexpensive. They are Festool products, one a router, one a soil-saw the last a mitre saw.

The issue I have is all run as per North American electric. i.e. 110v 60 hz. Clearly achieving the 110v in the UK would not be an issue, however after some research it seems to run these using the UK 110v at 50 Hz will cause a 17% drop in power and the same drop in any fan cooling. This I could live with but the part I don't understand is, there would be an increase in voltage (maybe someone could explain this to me). 

This increase will likely, so I am informed prove a possible issue for each respective motor.

My question is, without resorting to the purchasing of an expensive frequency converter, is there anyway I could reduce the voltage and so limit/minimize any issues with the motors

Many thanks in advance

 
110V transformers for power tools are readily available, so just buy one of those. You will need to change the plug on the power tools for a yellow commando plug. If colour coded to US standards BLACK is live (hot) and white is neutral.

Re overheating on 50Hz, you will just haver to try yja and see. It may or may not be a problem.

 
I have had a Winnebago battery charging transformer burn out after I had added a 230V (110V) input, but bear in mind that was connected for many hours,,, yours will be much more erratic in use so I shouldn't think that you'd have a problem

 
Much depends on the motor type:

Capacitor start motors could have problems with the centrifugal switch.

Universal motors for hand tools should be OK but any speed control could be a problem.

Contact the manufacturers.

 
Lower the frequency and the current will increase, in theory the torque will also increase. There is a fundamental flaw in that, current.

To control the current a reduced voltage should be used, for 120V 60Hz use 100V 50Hz.

To add to the fun, you buy a 230/110V transformer and plug it in. I’ll bet you don’t get 110V out. Despite what the IET says UK voltages are nearer 250V so you will get 120V from the transformer.

↑↑ Return to start ↑↑

Much depends on the motor type:

Capacitor start motors could have problems with the centrifugal switch.

Universal motors for hand tools should be OK but any speed control could be a problem.

Contact the manufacturers.

 
I have a Snap On angle drill that came from the states,110v 60Hz and it runs ok on one of our 110v site transformers,after all it's intermittent use with a power tool,now continuos running may be a different matter.

 
It is exactly as Tony says. People run away with the idea that the motor overheats because it runs slower. This is partially true, but the main overheating problem is caused by the change in frequency ITSELF, and not the speed change, [as tony said]

On the whole, a bad idea.... I know a chap that imported a load of 60 cycle motors, and he claims that he had to have them rewound... [How true this is i do not know]

john...

 
First of all I would like to thank everyone for contributing a response to my question. You would not believe some o the answers I have had thus far, one from a Festool sales manager who "went away to consult with colleagues" who when he replied informed me, all I needed to do was change the plug!!!!!!! 

As you might therefore understand, it is now great I am finally getting responses that if not actual confirmed answers, are at least realistic and thought out which trust me, are much appreciated.

I shall now try and respond to all individually.

110V transformers for power tools are readily available, so just buy one of those. You will need to change the plug on the power tools for a yellow commando plug. If colour coded to US standards BLACK is live (hot) and white is neutral.

Re overheating on 50Hz, you will just haver to try yja and see. It may or may not be a problem.


I have a couple of site transformers back in the UK which it was my intention to use. I've not stripped what the North American market call a plug so thanks for the colour coding advice.

The items I have are a very expensive buy in the UK. Had they been £150 each I wouldn't even be asking this question but the total purchase price of the three items I wish to bring back, (router, circular saw and mitre saw would cost me somewhere in the region of £1800 which is why I was/am hopeful of finding a cheaper solution. In view of this cost, I am a tad wary of using the "Suck it and see" approach.

I have had a Winnebago battery charging transformer burn out after I had added a 230V (110V) input, but bear in mind that was connected for many hours,,, yours will be much more erratic in use so I shouldn't think that you'd have a problem


It is true, all of the power tools would be used in short bursts rather than run continuously which again formed a part of my hope they could operate regardless of the frequency difference.

Lower the frequency and the current will increase, in theory the torque will also increase. There is a fundamental flaw in that, current.

To control the current a reduced voltage should be used, for 120V 60Hz use 100V 50Hz.

To add to the fun, you buy a 230/110V transformer and plug it in. I’ll bet you don’t get 110V out. Despite what the IET says UK voltages are nearer 250V so you will get 120V from the transformer.

↑↑ Return to start ↑↑

Much depends on the motor type:

Capacitor start motors could have problems with the centrifugal switch.

Universal motors for hand tools should be OK but any speed control could be a problem.

Contact the manufacturers.


As I explained. NOT being a sparks while I have been told a reduction in frequency means an increase in current and therefore a risk of overheat/burn out I do not understand the less freq. ..more current principle. Maybe if it's not too long winded an issue you might explain that to me.

While I accept your comment regarding a 230/110v transformer more likely to give out 120v you also suggest reducing the voltage to 100v 50 Hz. Is there a reasonable option for me to be able to do that given (so far as I know) transformers are as you say 110v??

I have not been able to see wiring diagrams for these tools despite looking online. I therefore do not know if any of them are start capacitor types. What I do know, if this helps anyone out there with an answer, they have what is called, Full wave electronics allowing smooth start, speed adjustment, constant speed and temperature control. This in particular states, The machine power supply is limited and the speed reduced if the motor exceeds a certain temperature. The machine continues operating at reduced power to allow the ventilator to cool the motor quickly. If the machine temperature exceeds the maximum permitted value for longer periods, the machine switches off completely after approx. 40 seconds and can only be switched on again once the motor has cooled sufficiently. 

Given the above I do not know if this would be enough to allow operation via the UK 50Hz?? Maybe my providing more information will allow someone to give a more definitive answer.

I did also have a look at the following and wonder if this would/might be a better option or would I be wasting my time and money?

Step-down Voltage Conversion? 
This Goldsource ST-5000 Step-down and Step-up Voltage Converter (also described as a step down or step up voltage transformer) is mainly  for use in the UK and other European countries to power electrical equipment from the USA. What it does is convert UK/European 220 - 240 volts to US 110 - 120 volts. The output is pure AC and the voltage converter can be used with all appliances rated 0 - 5000W. This voltage converter will take US two pin and three pin plugs.

I have a Snap On angle drill that came from the states,110v 60Hz and it runs ok on one of our 110v site transformers,after all it's intermittent use with a power tool,now continuos running may be a different matter.


I have already responded to a comment similar to this and as you suggest, it was my hope the intermittent use of these tools would allow me to use them in the UK

It is exactly as Tony says. People run away with the idea that the motor overheats because it runs slower. This is partially true, but the main overheating problem is caused by the change in frequency ITSELF, and not the speed change, [as tony said]

On the whole, a bad idea.... I know a chap that imported a load of 60 cycle motors, and he claims that he had to have them rewound... [How true this is i do not know]

john...


I appreciate your comment. I do understand in an ideal world this is a bad idea. As I mentioned above, had the tools I plan to bring over been relatively inexpensive to purchase in the UK, I would not be asking this question. If you like, I am simply clutching at straws in the hope someone might offer a reasonably inexpensive solution.

 
Do the motors have brushes in them i.e. do they spark at the back, non drive end, a little when you use them?

Post the tool type codes that you are looking at too.

 
Do the motors have brushes in them i.e. do they spark at the back, non drive end, a little when you use them?

Post the tool type codes that you are looking at too.


Hi,\\Thanks for the response. The tool models are:

TS 55 Festool,

OF 1400 Festool, &

SKU: DEW-DWS780LST

Model: DWS780LST

Yes they have brushes

 
Could you not sell them where you are before moving and then use the money to buy replacements over here?

 
Hi,\\Thanks for the response. The tool models are:

TS 55 Festool,

OF 1400 Festool, &

SKU: DEW-DWS780LST

Model: DWS780LST

Yes they have brushes


If they are US power ratings on the plates, then TBH, they may, be OK over here, you won't get any warranty or potentially spares for them though in the UK.

IMHO your best bet is to flog them as above.

 
Hi Dave,

This is not something I hadn't considered. Undoubtedly the suggestion is entirely logical, in this instance, for a number of reasons it would not prove a viable option

 
If they are US power ratings on the plates, then TBH, they may, be OK over here, you won't get any warranty or potentially spares for them though in the UK.

IMHO your best bet is to flog them as above.


Clearly I understand the issue re warranty and in some instances the spares problem. I would still like to know if without spending big on a frequency converter, if there is another way to overcome or mitigate the Hz issue such as has been suggested by reducing the voltage to say 100v

 
I would sincerely doubt it would be viable to have a UK 50 HZ compatible motor fitted. As for Festool I have spoken to them and what a struggle that was and all for no help.

you could always try looking at the spares manuals for both the one you have and the UK 110v version to see if they have same part numbers?


I am sure much of the tools are the same parts. They will however differ in motor (windings) and possibly elects.

 
Clearly I understand the issue re warranty and in some instances the spares problem. I would still like to know if without spending big on a frequency converter, if there is another way to overcome or mitigate the Hz issue such as has been suggested by reducing the voltage to say 100v
What would you consider big money, I have dealt with a small English company in the past and they have been very helpful in supplying things like single phase to 3 phase converters, variable frequency drives etc, I would think this would well be within their remit, worth a phone call anyway. Probably about a couple of hundred pounds (wild guess) which is only about the price of one of your bits of kit.

If this sounds feasible and it is OK with moderators I can post up the details.

 
What would you consider big money, I have dealt with a small English company in the past and they have been very helpful in supplying things like single phase to 3 phase converters, variable frequency drives etc, I would think this would well be within their remit, worth a phone call anyway. Probably about a couple of hundred pounds (wild guess) which is only about the price of one of your bits of kit.

If this sounds feasible and it is OK with moderators I can post up the details.


If I could get a frequency converter for a couple of hundred I'd be more than happy. If it's allowable, maybe you can post their website/email contact details or alternatively, is there a personal message option on this forum?

 
I don't see an issue with a member posting a link from an internet supplier that they are not associated with, other than perhaps a satisfied customer, to help another member.

It would be different if the supplier came on advertising their wares without paying for advertising.

 
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