Part P full scope help

[lewis_]

Hi new to this forum just wondering if anyone could explain to me what is involved in the part P courses and how I could prepare before hand to gain more of an understanding as I have little experience apart from my fundamentals course (18 yr old) any help appreciated tia

 

[kerching]

I have no idea what they 'teach" on a Part P,course or even what value it is as Part P is a building Regulation

someone will be along shortly to correct me

 

[Evans Electric]

Hi   Lewis  ,  are you thinking of registering for  Domestic Installer  .      I say that because  Part P   is actually   the section of the Building Regs  covering electrics  and basically states  anyone doing domestic electrics should be a "competent " person  .     FULL SCOPE   means all general domestic electrics  where LIMITED SCOPE  means  kitchen fitters  & plumbers  doing the odd bit of simple electrics .

And the only way to be an accepted "Competent " person to carry out "DOMESTIC" work is to be assessed by one of the  registration bodies ,   NICEIC/ELECSA .....  NAPIT / Stroma ,  ( Each pair are basically the same company)   Most domestic work is expected to be registered with local building control which you can do when registered .    

There is no such thing really as  a " Part P course "  

You need to take the various courses specific to this trade  ....be very careful of paying money for any courses that do not apply to qualifying as an electrician .  

One of the guys on here can tell you the right courses .  

Edit :     I wouldn't dream of correcting Mr Kerching  

 

[kerching]

Edit :     I wouldn't dream of correcting Mr Kerching  

Many have tried....

ill happily admit when I'm wrong!....like today!

brain death testing RCD which was randomly tripping. Thought meter was faulty, then I connected it to the outgoing terminals of the RCD. That gives much better results

 

[Andy™]

as above, part P is a building regulation, not a qualification. those 'selling the 'part p' qualifications are just after you money.

if you want to be a sparky, best option would be get an apprenticeship somewhere. go speak to your local college

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hi new to this forum just wondering if anyone could explain to me what is involved in the part P courses and how I could prepare before hand to gain more of an understanding as I have little experience apart from my fundamentals course (18 yr old) any help appreciated tia

Hello Lewis, welcome to the forum. I will try to give a bit more meat on the bones of how & what Part P is to complement what the others have already said. 

Part-P is one of a number of building regulations that has relevance when undertaking domestic electrical installations and alterations, it specifically relates to Electrical Safety in Dwellings;   https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-approved-document-p  But there are numerous other building regulations that also have relevance and should be adhered to when undertaking electrical work, e.g. Part A Structure, Part M access & use of buildings, Part F ventilation, etc; https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/approved-documents  Yet for some reason you don't see anyone advertising Part F courses or Part M courses!  Any person with a good grasp of English and an internet connection can download any or all of the approved documents to gain a full understanding of what they are without needing a course!

However the traditional historically recognised electrical qualifications are the various City & Guilds courses, (numbers & titles have changed over the years), which cover the theory & science of electrical theory. Practical design & installation. Understanding the current edition of wiring regulations, Inspection &Testing etc.  These are the sort of courses you need if you want to become an electrician. The "part-P" bandwagon came about around 2005-2006 when the new statutory building regulations were introduced. These required certain electrical work to have a Building regulations compliance certificate to be issued as well as the BS761 electrical certificate(s). A qualified electrician doing any notifiable work either had to pay a fee, and arrange with the local council building control, to come out and inspect the work to verify compliance with Part P.  Or they could become a member of the various trade bodies that Evans mentioned, so they could sign off and notify their own work.

When Part P was introduced many existing electricians who were doing domestic notifiable work, needed to bring some of their qualifications up-to-date, e.g. formal qualification relating to the current wiring regulations. (They did not need to do all the basics of theory & science and installation again, just a current regs update). This was where the Part-P packages started to emerge, quick update for existing electricians to bring them back up to speed with current regs. they were never intended as a comprehensive course for a novice to start from scratch.  Yet for some obscure reason the phrase Part-P has become a name many think refers to a full traditional electrical qualification. It isn't and it Never was.  An easy tell-tail sign is if a course advertised as Part-P also includes "Portable Appliance Testing" (PAT), as this has No relevance to domestic electrical work anymore than a 'quilting and needlework' course has relevance to someone wanting to become a hairdresser.

I don't think there is even a formal standard or definition of what a "Part-P" course should or should not included?  There may actually be some out there that are reasonable in relation to what you are paying. But there is without a doubt far to many that are just a rip-off, taking money from vulnerable people who want to learn a new trade, with absolutely no hope of moving forward after they complete the course. Tread carefully, don't go paying over any money until you are 100% sure you understand what you are getting.  As Andy said, the best solution is if you have a local college that offers electrical courses, go and speak to them about what you are aiming for. You may need to book an appointment to go and have a meeting with the head of the electrical department to discuss what courses they offer and what's best for you,  But if possible speaking face to face with someone knowledgeable about the range of C&G electrical courses is worth a lot.

Doc H

 

[lewis_]

Hello Lewis, welcome to the forum. I will try to give a bit more meat on the bones of how & what Part P is to complement what the others have already said. 

Part-P is one of a number of building regulations that has relevance when undertaking domestic electrical installations and alterations, it specifically relates to Electrical Safety in Dwellings;   https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-approved-document-p  But there are numerous other building regulations that also have relevance and should be adhered to when undertaking electrical work, e.g. Part A Structure, Part M access & use of buildings, Part F ventilation, etc; https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/approved-documents  Yet for some reason you don't see anyone advertising Part F courses or Part M courses!  Any person with a good grasp of English and an internet connection can download any or all of the approved documents to gain a full understanding of what they are without needing a course!

However the traditional historically recognised electrical qualifications are the various City & Guilds courses, (numbers & titles have changed over the years), which cover the theory & science of electrical theory. Practical design & installation. Understanding the current edition of wiring regulations, Inspection &Testing etc.  These are the sort of courses you need if you want to become an electrician. The "part-P" bandwagon came about around 2005-2006 when the new statutory building regulations were introduced. These required certain electrical work to have a Building regulations compliance certificate to be issued as well as the BS761 electrical certificate(s). A qualified electrician doing any notifiable work either had to pay a fee, and arrange with the local council building control, to come out and inspect the work to verify compliance with Part P.  Or they could become a member of the various trade bodies that Evans mentioned, so they could sign off and notify their own work.

When Part P was introduced many existing electricians who were doing domestic notifiable work, needed to bring some of their qualifications up-to-date, e.g. formal qualification relating to the current wiring regulations. (They did not need to do all the basics of theory & science and installation again, just a current regs update). This was where the Part-P packages started to emerge, quick update for existing electricians to bring them back up to speed with current regs. they were never intended as a comprehensive course for a novice to start from scratch.  Yet for some obscure reason the phrase Part-P has become a name many think refers to a full traditional electrical qualification. It isn't and it Never was.  An easy tell-tail sign is if a course advertised as Part-P also includes "Portable Appliance Testing" (PAT), as this has No relevance to domestic electrical work anymore than a 'quilting and needlework' course has relevance to someone wanting to become a hairdresser.

I don't think there is even a formal standard or definition of what a "Part-P" course should or should not included?  There may actually be some out there that are reasonable in relation to what you are paying. But there is without a doubt far to many that are just a rip-off, taking money from vulnerable people who want to learn a new trade, with absolutely no hope of moving forward after they complete the course. Tread carefully, don't go paying over any money until you are 100% sure you understand what you are getting.  As Andy said, the best solution is if you have a local college that offers electrical courses, go and speak to them about what you are aiming for. You may need to book an appointment to go and have a meeting with the head of the electrical department to discuss what courses they offer and what's best for you,  But if possible speaking face to face with someone knowledgeable about the range of C&G electrical courses is worth a lot.

Doc H

I think I’ve been mistaken about the name of the course, it covers design and installation but I was wondering if you knew more about what I would be doing on this course and the sort of content involved just so that I don’t go in completely clueless, thanks for the initial answer though 

Hi   Lewis  ,  are you thinking of registering for  Domestic Installer  .      I say that because  Part P   is actually   the section of the Building Regs  covering electrics  and basically states  anyone doing domestic electrics should be a "competent " person  .     FULL SCOPE   means all general domestic electrics  where LIMITED SCOPE  means  kitchen fitters  & plumbers  doing the odd bit of simple electrics .

And the only way to be an accepted "Competent " person to carry out "DOMESTIC" work is to be assessed by one of the  registration bodies ,   NICEIC/ELECSA .....  NAPIT / Stroma ,  ( Each pair are basically the same company)   Most domestic work is expected to be registered with local building control which you can do when registered .    

There is no such thing really as  a " Part P course "  

You need to take the various courses specific to this trade  ....be very careful of paying money for any courses that do not apply to qualifying as an electrician .  

One of the guys on here can tell you the right courses .  

Edit :     I wouldn't dream of correcting Mr Kerching  

Domestic yeah I already have done a fundamentals course and I have also done my 18th edition which I passed with 90% so I sort of have an understanding, the next course is part P based but i know that it’s mainly covering design and installation which I didn’t make clear in my question my mistake but if you could explain more on what I would expect content wise with design and installation so that I can read up before hand that would be fantastic thanks for answering 

 

[Doc Hudson]

Does this course have a City & Guilds course number? if so you can search the C&G website for the basics of what each course involves. Have you downloaded and read Approved document P?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-approved-document-p  as that is what I would understand as Part P based.  But all you will find in there is that installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS7671.  So I have no idea what this "Part-P" course would cover. 

Doc H.

 

[Evans Electric]

the next course is part P based but i know that it’s mainly covering design and installation which I didn’t make clear

As far as I know Lewis , there is NO  Part P based course , it makes no sense to me and  my fellow Forumites   ,  who between us must have around 1000 years in the trade .

Note that The Doc was asking you if there is a C&Guilds  number  to the course .  

Please take on board that Part P  has nothing to do with qualifying as an electrician   ...there are certain City & Guilds  plus an NVQ   that has been thrown in , probably to leach more cash out of you .  

 

[Sharpend]

Perhaps have a read through here 

https://www.ecscard.org.uk/card-types/electrotechnical/installation-electrician

this will indicate qualifications required to be recognised as an electrician. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I think I’ve been mistaken about the name of the course, it covers design and installation but I was wondering if you knew more about what I would be doing on this course and the sort of content involved just so that I don’t go in completely clueless, thanks for the initial answer though 

Domestic yeah I already have done a fundamentals course and I have also done my 18th edition which I passed with 90% so I sort of have an understanding, the next course is part P based but i know that it’s mainly covering design and installation which I didn’t make clear in my question my mistake but if you could explain more on what I would expect content wise with design and installation so that I can read up before hand that would be fantastic thanks for answering 

So what does the course specification say?

Surely you have evaluated what the course content is before you commit to participating???

Otherwise...  its a bit like buying a pair of jeans...  

without checking the colour and if the waist & leg length are suitable for your needs?

:C

 

[binky]

I did the 'part P course many years ago, it was basically to cover the legalities of Part P - sod all to do with electrics as I recall. This was at the time Part P was first introduced, so it was an update course for electricians - not sure if you would need it now or not?

 

[Evans Electric]

Perhaps have a read through here 

https://www.ecscard.org.uk/card-types/electrotechnical/installation-electrician

this will indicate qualifications required to be recognised as an electrician. 

Would I be recognised now or have to do another two dozen courses  I wonder .  Probably be reduced to "Van Driver Grade " 

 

[Sharpend]

You were an American grade originally? journeyman? 
 

the Approved Electrician sounds much better. Journeyman makes you a travelling electrician? And we all know the reputation of travellers don’t we

 

[Evans Electric]

I never heard that expression used in our trade ,  other than on that card  .  It was pre -JIB  .  

My maternal Grandfather is listed  as a Journeyman Carpenter & Joiner  .     I think  the term means  not workshop based perhaps.  A sort of " Have pliers , Will travel " 

 

[kerching]

Why I still there a pic of a quizzical looking  Gary Glitter/Fred West on your card?

 

[Sharpend]

Why I still there a pic of a quizzical looking  Gary Glitter/Fred West on your card?

that’s obvious, he didn’t want his own pic on it

 

[Evans Electric]

I remember looking at the instructions wondering why the photo wasn't being taken  , then  ..FLASH !!  .. at least I wasn't picking my nose.     

 

[Sharpend]

I remember looking at the instructions wondering why the photo wasn't being taken  , then  ..FLASH !!  .. at least I wasn't picking my nose.     

Oh I thought this was an early selfie picture concept where you try not to look upwards towards camera so picture looks natural?