please read this, your opinions are needed.

[Technician]

When most gas spares wholesalers will not sell

safety critical parts to customers without the gas

safe card, how could this regulation of this industry

be applied to the electrical industry so that only

"competent" persons could install, alter, modify,

repair installations?

I realise it has been said in a previous post but the

restricted sale of cable could solve it.

 

[Sidewinder]

Technician,

There is an issue with that because anyone can work on any gas system or appliance if they are competent as long as they are NOT doing it in the course of a business, charity, or other "undertaking" or for a profit in any shape or form.

i.e. it is perfectly legal for me to undertake all gas work in my own home as long as I meet the regulations.

GasSafe, nor HSE can touch me unless they can prove I am incompetent.

This is perfectly legal and above board, and I have had this confirmed by independent means.

However, as soon as you start undertaking gas works for a business, charity, anyone else, profit etc. then the rules change.

 

[steptoe]

When most gas spares wholesalers will not sell safety critical parts to customers without the gas

safe card, how could this regulation of this industry

be applied to the electrical industry so that only

"competent" persons could install, alter, modify,

repair installations?

I realise it has been said in a previous post but the

restricted sale of cable could solve it.

as a first thought maybe something as simple as only a person holding an 'electricians licence' could buy an MCB [for instance], or consumer unit.

Im definately very much in favour of a licencing system with your credentials on it, along with experience and areas of competence,

yes, I will most deffo be restricted in certain areas of work, as I think would most of us,

but what I lose, will, I hope, be of more benefit to the customer to see what/who they are actually getting to do the work,

Im very much in favour of this and think it would work admirably alongside the independent assessment idea. [sorry, I cant remember who posted that, (Manator?) :| ]

 

[wicksy]

I would like to see electrical safety checks compulsory by law just like the gas in rented accommodation as its a joke right now as it falls under the "duty of care" loop hole.

 

[Technician]

Sidewinder that is extremely good advice. I DID

have this at the back of my mind and I WAS aware

of the issues you raised.

However I am painfully aware, from posts on this

forum that people are paying twice to have things

done. I am sure you would agree with my sentiment.

 

[Sidewinder]

I had "the call" today from the IET!

Fell down at the first preliminary question.

Gutted.

The question was, do you hold any of the following "qualifications", EngTech, CEng, IEng, and a few others, which escape me, sorry.

Yes, I said, I am IEng.

Sorry the guy said, you are over qualified for this survey.

Gutted!!!

 

[Evans Electric]

Just want to second Prodave's post on DNO isolators, permission for contractor to make safe, Smart meters to include isolator .

(I fear that for the latter its too late , I think the idiots have already manufactured them)

This problem was forced upon the trade in the days when the local "Electricity Boards" MEB...MANWEB etc took it upon themselves to the Electric Police , then after about 70 years and being privatised they realised how much it cost them doing free fuse pulling and re-sealing.

Bullet point :- However is it to be allowed to continue forever .?

And Prodave is not a Jock , hes as English as Sidewinder

 

[Manator]

I had "the call" today from the IET!Fell down at the first preliminary question.

Gutted.

The question was, do you hold any of the following "qualifications", EngTech, CEng, IEng, and a few others, which escape me, sorry.

Yes, I said, I am IEng.

Sorry the guy said, you are over qualified for this survey.

Gutted!!!

The survey is not after qualified answers, they are after a general opinions from those who would not give a theses.

Its a grass roots survey, but what does annoy me is that they have not done a RSS feed for those like you who are members but not involved directly, it would be nice to see all the discussions even though we do not take part in any of them, instead we are left awaiting the results.

 

[Zeespark]

Manator, I was at this discussion as one of the participants on Thursday night.

AndyGuinness

 

[Manator]

Manator, I was at this discussion as one of the participants on Thursday night.AndyGuinness

I know, which is why I made this a temp sticky thread.

Let us know if you have any news or feedback.

 

[Zeespark]

It seemed quite engineering quals biased, as opposed to electrical. It didnt really go into alot of detail of whats going on on the coalface so to speak.

AndyGuinness

 

[elvis]

* What if anything does the IET or any of the membership bodies do when they receive a complaint from a member of the public about poor or unsafe workmanship -edit- carried out by one of their members?-edit-

My problem with the membership bodies is that they are either toothless or don't care. The Spark or company pays the membership fee so what do they do when they receive a complaint? Sanction the spark by refusing to allow them to pay they're membership fee and displaying their van sticker for the following year? He/she can still go on doing what they've been doing for years with or without their sticker.

The gas guys cannot operate without their accreditation so the requirement for membership and the threat of expulsion is way more powerful.

 

[elvis]

Sorry, didn't realise how late I was in responding... not been around for a while!

I am a Jock!

 

[batty]

Obviously they will not put things right it will reduce there profits.

 

[elvis]

Well said Batty, exactly my point.

It has to be in the law.

Until we get to a place where the guys carrying out the work are held to account for it by 'someone', not one of these COMPETING accreditation bodies will make a difference.

I have experience of this, the organisations who purport to police our trade do nothing for the customer, the customer is who it is all about. The quality of work that a customer gets is based purely on the attitude of the guy who turns up to do the job, no matter what sticker he/she has on their van. Pot luck and character judgement from the customers side. It is an annoying cartel.

The sticker on the van means nothing. If it goes boobies up the way, the customer has no come back... I know this from experience, not even a call back to the customer... so what sanction is being carried out on the cowboy?

None.

Why?

Because they don't have the ability to.

We have a lot to learn from the gas guys.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Some good discussion here and sorry for the late update, but the whole exercise was pointless and I was a bit led up the garden path. Basically, there was NO opportunity to raise any of the excellent points you all made. The format went along the lines of a question was asked by an unrelated, non-electrically experienced market researcher and we had to respond. It very quickly led onto the real reason for the survey, which was to gauge the response to enrolling onto an accreditation scheme called ENGTECH run by the IET (for a fee of course).

And i still to date haven't been paid the £50 they promised.

total waste of time, sorry guys.

 

[Zeespark]

Voltz, Myself and another member here did the same thing, I was glad to have been paid for My time, or it would have been a total waste of time for Me.

Andy Guinness

 

[sellers]

Its a shame it was a waste of time. Can we not turn this around as so many good points were raised.

Perhaps get some emails going around with these questions?

 

[elvis]

I agree, it is a shame because it has been needing addressed for years.

I don't think we will ever get to a place where they will restrict the sale of cable.

How about this?

If insurance companies were forced to insist on householders having an electrical safety certificate that is no older than five years old it would:

1. force people to have the electrical safety of their homes checked regularly

2. make people think twice about the people they are getting in to carry out electrical upgrades in their homes

3. force people to upgrade the electrical systems in their homes. There is still some pretty prehistoric cabling living under floors out there!

I think electrical wiring cover is an option on most home insurance policies. Why shouldn't it be a core part of the policy?

I take the point (and defend it) that home owners are entitled to do whatever work they want on their own premises but I would guess that the insurance companies would defend their right not to cover a premises where any potentially hazardous work has been carried out by an operative who doesn't have some kind of recognised authority to do so.

I don't claim this as an instant fix and I have put this up here (and am happy) for people to pick holes in it as an idea, but I would suggest it is these lines that we have to be going along...

 

[Manator]

Insurance companies will cover all domestic properties, and they rely on most to never read the small print. More and more stories are coming to light whereby insurance companies have not paid out because work carried out was not a, notified b , not done by a competent person, c , no up to date safety checks have been carried out.

Again its down to the joe public to really understand going cheap is very costly.

The scheme providers are sadly lacking in their duties to alert the public to this, and though I have worked for the electrical safety council in the past, I am disappointed in their silence.