Question on Fire Alarms

[Subneural]

I'm quoting on a rewiring shop with flat above and in my opinion I think there should be a fire alarm system interlinked between the shop and the flat.

I've put in my quote that I recommend getting a professional fire systems designer to look at the place although I would be happy to quote on the install.

What happens if they dont bother and just tell me to get on with the electrics? Normally I would fit smokes in the flat but that wouldn't be enough in this case so do I still fit them or not ?

 

[green-hornet]

This is where the licencing laws and building control have a say in what is required.

You are correct that there should be suitable warning given to the flat, and visa vera in the event of a fire.

 

[NozSpark]

From a liability point of view you are probably better off not installing anything as opposed to installing an inadequate fire alarm..

If you know a fire alarm engineer get them in to quote for the fire alarm --- maybe get them to design, you install and then they come back to commision and test!

If you keep the quotes seperate then you could still get the rewire even if they don't take your advice about the fire alarm

Be aware of licensing (council) requirements for commercial installations (shops)

 

[Evans Electric]

Thats interesting Subby, I would feel the same as you about the fire alarm but the thing is , we as electricians , are not responsible for stipulating fire protection as far as I know. I wonder if the local authority should rule on this .

I guess it is up to the owner to abide by any by-laws that cover this, and employ a contractor to install what is required. As with, say, any requirement for fire doors, he needs to instruct a chippy to fit them.

Perhaps you should allow for a small alarm system with smokes and sounders in both areas.

Lets see what others say.

Deke

 

[Theorysparky]

I would seek the advice of building control...

if an alarm panel type was installed it would need to be accessible by the shop and the flat,,so where would you put it

rf linked system ?????

does the same person own both shop and flat ???

does it come under a HMO

building control is my first call ............

 

[kme]

Good idea Theo, but not LABC. You need the Regional Fire Officer, who can advise on local byelaw requirements; or a fire alarm design company. You "can" deal with the flat as a "stand-alone" dwelling; but, if the escape route could be compromised by the shop, you`d have to also include a sounder from the shop system, within the flat. I think.

KME

 

[bryn]

Will the sounders in the shop and flat have to have different tones as well to avoid confusion.

 

[kme]

Preferably yes. Theres a good chance the flat won`t have to sound in the shop, IF the compartmentation is up to standard, but thats up to the FO.

 

[Subneural]

The flat will have seperate access via outside stairway so there will be no access to both shop and flat. They will both have different occupiers

 

[kme]

OK, but could a fire in the shop adversely affect the escape route from the flat? If yes, then the shop alarms would need a sounder in the flat.

Otherwise, seperate systems may be acceptable - LD3 in the flat, and maybe an LC2 in the shop, although, dependant on so many things, something as low as an LD3, or as high as an LA1 may be required? FRA required, methinks (Fire Risk Assessment )

KME

 

[septiclecky]

Will the sounders in the shop and flat have to have different tones as well to avoid confusion.

If the fire alarm goes off in either I would not want to stay in the building I would take long strides and get away from the building ASAP.

 

[Evans Electric]

All this is very interesting but I still maintain that its not the responsiblity of an electrician to determine the fire risks, what training do we have , what qualifications do we have, do we carry insurance to cover the design of fire protection.

Looking at it the other way , lets say you have done the new wiring ,lighting, power in the shop and flat, as asked for by the owner . Then the local council write to you ,demanding to know why you have not fitted a fire alarm to BS???? .

Or that the domestic smokes you fitted are not adequate.

We can install it if asked but the requirements are from whoever is responsible.

 

[kme]

Agreed Deke

 

[Subneural]

I've forwarded the quote to the main contractor with the statement that a professional fire alarm design is recommended although I am happy to quote for the installation.

Beyond this I consider it out of my hands. I can only install that which I am contracted and paid to do.

Whats the betting that the main contractor doesn't say a word to the owner about it because he wants to go in cheap on the quote.

 

[kme]

For future info:

to have an FRA (fire risk assessment) is approx

 

[mickey g]

as kme said earlier if the compartmentation is up to standard usually 1 hr minimum then can be treated as separate buildings, and no early warning required.think of blocks of flats or semi ,terraced houses double brick wall separating.if in doubt first point of call local building control,they liaise with fire authority as protocol.