Rear Speakers

[wozz]

Hello,

Im wanting to install some speakers in my ceiling for the rears of a 5.1 system (which i dont have yet). Are ceiling speakers really suitable for this?

I was fitting some speaker craft accufit speakers the other day and they were massive (190mm cut out) and would look stupid in my living room are there any reasonably priced smaller speakers that will do the job?

cheers.

 

[ianmacd]

Monitor audio do a range. I have tried some of them and they are good. Their W380LCR compared very well with their new RX1's (about the best speaker at that price point). The problem will be the smaller the speaker the less bass extension you will have but thats not necessarily an issue in a .x system as you probably want to set them all to small anyway and have the LFE sent to the .x. MA also do special rear FX speakers (like their wall mounted equivalents).

 

[Riggy]

Sorry can't help, saw the title and thought it was about MPs - they're all rear speakers!

I'll get me coat.

 

[wozz]

cheers ian, way out of my price range though, i was thinking more cheap and cheerful without sounding terrible.

Ive seen some KEF speakers that are 90 odd mill cut out and about

 

[JUD]

I was thinking of putting surround sound ceiling speakers in when I rewire.

I have just got to thinking how you would comply with Parts B & E.

Anyway, just done a quick Google and found THIS. Maybe of use to you.

 

[green-hornet]

I still love that avatar



Interestingly I did a full rewire and because there was a flat above all lighting I fittings was at least 30 min fire rated, the AV guys turned up and just cut holes implanted speaker collected monies and wandered off into the sunset on their horses.

 

[wozz]

I still love that avatar

Interestingly I did a full rewire and because there was a flat above all lighting I fittings was at least 30 min fire rated, the AV guys turned up and just cut holes implanted speaker collected monies and wandered off into the sunset on their horses.

i have often thought the same about extract fans.

 

[Robojin]

Hello,Im wanting to install some speakers in my ceiling for the rears of a 5.1 system (which i dont have yet). Are ceiling speakers really suitable for this?

I was fitting some speaker craft accufit speakers the other day and they were massive (190mm cut out) and would look stupid in my living room are there any reasonably priced smaller speakers that will do the job?

cheers.

Rear speakers are just for effect and are not used in the same way as the LCR speakers, the drawback with using ceiling speakers for rears, is that you have less control over direction in regard to listening position, and it's harder to compensate for the reflected sound waves

A further the problem with smaller speakers is the frequency range, the smaller speaker the less low frequency due the size of the driver.

I've installed Emphasys IC60's (210mm cutout) for the rears as the customer did not want speakers on the walls, and double up as speakers for a Sonos zone. these may seem large but once in place you will not notice them (SAV can supply)

KEF make a range of Ci (custom installer) speakers based on their Q drivers, worth a look at but cost more than Emphasys. If SAV can't offer pricing let me know and I'll pass on details of other trade sources

 

[ianmacd]

cheers ian, way out of my price range though, i was thinking more cheap and cheerful without sounding terrible.Ive seen some KEF speakers that are 90 odd mill cut out and about

 

[Robojin]

I was thinking of putting surround sound ceiling speakers in when I rewire.I have just got to thinking how you would comply with Parts B & E.

Anyway, just done a quick Google and found THIS. Maybe of use to you.

These are also called 'Hoodys' the new forum sponsor SAV can supply at a very good price and you can sell with a significant markup (e.g. for the price in the link above)

They also act as acoustic barriers

 

[Robojin]

cheers ian, way out of my price range though, i was thinking more cheap and cheerful without sounding terrible.Ive seen some KEF speakers that are 90 odd mill cut out and about

 

[wozz]

if you could that would be good if you could mate.

Ive been looking at the KEF Ci80.2QR due to cost and size. I am now looking at monitor stuff ian suggested.

The KEF claim to have a good frequency response. As for the hoodys im was planning to make enclosures from sound bloc board as i thought this would contain more of the sound than a hoody, or is this overkill? I take it these speakers dont mind being in a sealed enclosure.

 

[ianmacd]

I believe the MA's are compliant with B&E already and are back enclosed. Will tell you for sure next week when mine arrive.

 

[Robojin]

if you could that would be good if you could mate.Ive been looking at the KEF Ci80.2QR due to cost and size. I am now looking at monitor stuff ian suggested.

The KEF claim to have a good frequency response. As for the hoodys im was planning to make enclosures from sound bloc board as i thought this would contain more of the sound than a hoody, or is this overkill? I take it these speakers dont mind being in a sealed enclosure.

Hoody's, hard to be precise, if the void you put them in has no insulation, in theory it will become part of the baffle

In the install I've just finished one set in dinning area I used Hoody's because there was a bedroom above so had to account for fire regs, in the single story Kitchen I did not, but the roof was lined with KingSpan. I can't tell the difference between the two installations, but I guess my hearing is not as good as it was

Here's a pic of the 210mm speaker, next to small DL's, customer did not believe that the 80mm-100mm would deliver enough low frq so was happy to go Large

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/robojin/IMG_5988.jpg

 

[Very Savvy]

Yes Robojin is right the ci100's in the KEF range are small and give a good diffused rear surround field.

What you have to remember is the rear speakers are effects speakers and they dont want to be directional to your ears, you are trying to create a diffused non directional sound from behind you. The best way to create this to use speakers with angled tweeters and point the tweeter back towards the rear wall so the sound bounces of the rear wall then diffuses before ever reaching your ears.

So in the Emphasys range the first in the line-up with an movable tweeter is the IC65.

The other thing to remember is these speakers are normally going right at the back of the room (sometimes up against the coving) it sometimes looks better to use small square or rectangular speakers

See here: http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-audio/in-wall/aim-lcr?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=91&category_id=50

If you need any prices PM me

 

[Very Savvy]

The Kef Ci80s have a rear acoustics dust cover but these are not fire rated.

 

[Very Savvy]

Be carefull with Speakers that have back cans on them. These are normally only accoustic or dust covers to protect the speaker electronics. as the cover is attached to the actual speaker, in a fire the front of the speaker melts then the whole speaker (inc back can) fall out of the ceiling leaving a nice big hole!

Making you liable under building regs.

 

[ianmacd]

Making you liable under building regs.

To be clear, it is NOT the installers responcibility to ensure compliance with building regs but the owner/tennant/person requesting work.

I got the MA C165's yesterday. Out of the ceiling they are a little bass shy. I have to admit I would not like to install them with a habitable room above without a hood or plasterboard box. There may well be some incandecent material in there but I'm not convinced. Might give MA a call to confirm.

Shame it wasn't B&W as their office is not far from my house.

 

[Very Savvy]

Sorry I thought they were going in your house?

These type of speakers are infinite baffle (like the speakers on the rear parcel shelf of our first cars)

So they use the volume of air behind the speaker to create the bass, so they will sound pretty nasty in mid air. and they also have a cancel effect when the sound waves coming from the front of the speaker meet the opposite sound waves coming out the back of the speaker (when they are mounted in the ceiling, the ceiling acts as a speaker baffle to stop this happening).

Some of the monitor Audio speakers that are back boxed use the calculated volume of air in the back box to increase their bass effect, so these are more like a standard cabinet speaker but in-ceiling mountable.

So these type of speaker should sound ok even if they are not mounted in the ceiling. Most of the MA back boxed speakers are UL94/V0 Fire rated.

Find out more about UL94/V0 here:

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/chemicals/plastics/testing/flame/

 

[wozz]

right got round to doing a bit more on this.

the problem ive encountered is the KEFs which i like are 4 ohm and all the receivers ive been looking at cheap sony ones only output in 8 ohms.

does this mean im going to have problems im not looking for the absolute best sound quality or volume??