Reg number?

[boltonsparky]

That's not what is written though (nor is it what has ever been written). It states that it may not necessarily be unsafe or require upgrading - it doesn't definitively state that it is safe and doesn't require upgrading. In other words due consideration needs to be given to the issues.

Fused neutrals were once permitted but are now illegal. 

That's correct and the point of EICRs, it all falls down when the people doing the EICRs neglect to take note of the sections I've quoted above. The 1920s example was a bit extreme to make a point. 

The more common issue and more pressing issue at the moment and the one to which I was getting hot under the collar about largely led due to the miss guidance of this recent legislation for the rental sector (although I've come across it for the last 10+ years) is installs wired to 16th and 17th editions that are un molested, as installed and with good test results being condemned because they don't meet the current edition or amendment. They may not be as safe as an install to the 18th edition but  are not unsafe for continued use. There are a large number of people both in the industry and out of the industry that think these installs are unsafe and should be condemned and upgraded to the latest regs/amendment and as said the latest legislation really hasn't helped that. 

A prime example is the one the OP has come across. Is a plastic CU under the stairs properly installed with good connections and no signs of thermal damage really such a threat and ticking time bomb that it needs to be stripped out and replaced with a metal CU to meet current regs.

 

[kerching]

Is a plastic CU under the stairs properly installed with good connections and no signs of thermal damage really such a threat and ticking time bomb that it needs to be stripped out and replaced with a metal CU ( MORE THAN LIKELY OF A POORER QUALITY THAN THE EXISTING UNIT) to meet current regs.

FTFY

You're welcome

My son's rental has a single RCD main switch...it's only a 4 way unit BUT metal

when I get around to doing the PRS EICR on it I will swap it for an RCBO unit

 

[boltonsparky]

FTFY

You're welcome

My son's rental has a single RCD main switch...it's only a 4 way unit BUT metal

when I get around to doing the PRS EICR on it I will swap it for an RCBO unit

Aye, badly terminated, gland holes knocked out and un-glanded failing the IP rating and along with it removing any fire containment it might have had had it been installed correctly, and the good old favourite of cables and tails entering un-glanded holes directly against the metal edging  headbang

 

[Murdoch]

Fused neutrals were once permitted but are now illegal. 

Not 100% sure I agree with that word

 

[Andy™]

Not 100% sure I agree with that word

i dont think there is any law stating that for BS7671 wiring, however it is illegal for DNO's side to have a fused neutral

 

[Evans Electric]

Fused neutrals were once permitted but are now illegal

The term illegal is often used in the trade   , I remember it from way back  .....not quite right as Andy says .       First time I heard it was a row developing   concerning a socket near a sink  being  " Illegal"  .       

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Not 100% sure I agree with that word

i dont think there is any law stating that for BS7671 wiring, however it is illegal for DNO's side to have a fused neutral

The term illegal is often used in the trade   , I remember it from way back  .....not quite right as Andy says .       First time I heard it was a row developing   concerning a socket near a sink  being  " Illegal"  .       

As Andy says there is specific legislation stating that suppliers CANNOT have a fused neutral.

see ESQCR 2002   7.(2)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/part/II

In one of the guidance notes that accompany the above statutory regulations,

it does say that pre 1937 cut-outs with fused neutrals must be removed from service by 2013.

i.e. with ref to;  

2(4) Regulation 7(2) shall not apply to any distributor’s fusible cut-out brought into use on or before 31st December 1936, until 10 years after the coming into force of these Regulations.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/regulation/2

SO a fused neutral is actually illegal...

BUT in relation to the original topic of the thread..

It is not something you would actually open up to check during a periodic inspection!!

providing the supply cut-out is mechanically sound.. with suitable conductors and not hanging off the wall...

the suppliers cut-out & meter are not part of the customers installation that you would open up and test!

Guinness

 

[Murdoch]

^^ hum

the suppliers head and metering equipment are outside the scope of EICRs ....

so to get back to my OP does anybody else have a view on the plastic CU in the understairs cupboard?

 

[kerching]

the suppliers cut-out & meter are not part of the customers installation that you would open up and test!

And God forbid that inside you found a carefully machined solid piece of metal replacing the fuse!   First port of call would be to write to PE and explain your surprise

 

[Evans Electric]

so to get back to my OO does anybody else have a view on the plastic CU in the understairs cupboard?

Because of the Regs change ,     I'd say it needed improvement  ..so a C3   .  

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

^^ hum

the suppliers head and metering equipment are outside the scope of EICRs ....

so to get back to my OP does anybody else have a view on the plastic CU in the understairs cupboard?

Electrical Safety First,  "Best Practice Guide 4"  Issue 5..

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

Describes your scenario about 100% match and calls it a "C3"..

i.e.  from page 15 (which is giving typical C3 code scenarios)..  it reads...

Presence of a consumer unit or similar switchgear made from combustible material (e.g. plastic) that is not inside a noncombustible enclosure and which is: - Located under wooden staircase, or - within a sole route of escape from the premises (Note: If unsatisfactory connections are found during inspection, this would warrant a code C2 classification to be recorded)

So I would go along with that as a suitable competent guidance.

Guinness   

 

[Murdoch]

Because of the Regs change ,     I'd say it needed improvement  ..so a C3   .  

which I would agree with ......

problem is that many sparks are going around saying they must be changed and give them a C2

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

which I would agree with ......

problem is that many sparks are going around saying they must be changed and give them a C2

Ignore other sparks....  Just reference Industry standard guidance from Best Practice Guide 4!

opcorn

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

And God forbid that inside you found a carefully machined solid piece of metal replacing the fuse!   First port of call would be to...  Take a photo then... write to PE and explain your surprise

You missed the important bit out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:slap

too much  :Y :Y :Y

again?

:C

 

[kerching]

Ah, i thought i had put that! Whoops

only one glass last night .......need to get another batch on. I may go for Shiraz or a nice Rioja for a change

 

[Murdoch]

Electrical Safety First,  "Best Practice Guide 4"  Issue 5..

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

Thanks for that - its just been updated and improved a bit

 

[Phoenix]

TBH they’ve over complicated matters.

 All they needed was mandatory EICRs done every 5 years, to latest version of BS 7671

 copy’s to landlord, tenant, letting agency and local council

 end of

You've got to be careful with saying things like that, EICR gets done, is unsatisfactory, is filed away with the paperwork for the property, the requirement as specified has been met.

Yes, I've seen stuff like this happen!

 

[Murdoch]

You've got to be careful with saying things like that, EICR gets done, is unsatisfactory, is filed away with the paperwork for the property, the requirement as specified has been met.

Yes, I've seen stuff like this happen!

you can’t legislate for numpties ......

 

[kerching]

Well,I've just had a quick skim through and this has appeared...never spotted it before

page 14

 

[kerching]

So does that mean all CUs need a lockable lid OR only if the CU contains moody blanks?