'Remote Switched Live'

[Simon Hewitt]

Is there a device that can 'remotely' supply a switched live to a boiler?

Heres my situation:

Boiler is downstairs in garage.

Megaflo cylinder and valves and controls are located two floors above in loft conversion.

All was working fine until a leak got water into the upstairs electrics and ******** things up. It is now dry and controls are working but it killed the neutral wire somewhere between there and the boiler.

Electrician was going to use spare wire in 5-core as neutral but it proved impossible - the wiring has been moved/changed/extended a number of times over the years and it is mostly inaccessible without ripping the house apart.

The proposed solution is to run a new cable from upstairs outside the house, down the wall and into the garage so all the old cabling can be disconnected and ignored. I hate trunking so would like to avoid this if at all possible.

As a non-electrician, it seems to me that the only necessary connection between the boiler and the controls is the switched live since power can be obtained locally (and is currently is jury-rigged to do that so we have hot water and heat).

What I am thinking of is a transmitter/receiver pair similar to the remote thermostat that transmits a Heat Request signal from upstairs to downstairs - when the switched Live upstairs is on, the transmitter sends a signal to the receiver which then creates a local Switched Live for the boiler.

Is there such a device?

Cheers

Simon

 

[Doc Hudson]

Welcome to the forum Simon. There are numerous wireless switching devices on the market, often used for security lights with remote sensors. EasySwitch Easy Switch Wireless Switches. Also a vast array of wireless heating controls such as, Wireless Controls It's difficult to suggest any precise solutions without more detail of exactly what you have fitted around your property and how you want it to switch. Another option could be using low voltage (12v or 24v) signals over alarm,phone,data sized cables to operate a relay. Which may be easier to run between floors.

Doc H.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:01 ----------

Few more questions and thoughts Simon, are you looking at doing the work yourself, getting another electrician or staying with the existing electrician but just looking for other options to the problem? What part of the country are you in and is you electrician a member of this forum? You could perhaps get him to register on here and he can discuss options available with some of our guys.

Doc H.

 

[steptoe]

+1 with the Doc,

There are numerous radio programmers and combined programmer/thermostats available depending on your exact requirements.

 

[Simon Hewitt]

Thanks for the replies.

What I want to do is the absolute minimum necessary to resolve the problem of the damaged 5-core that connects the boiler with everything else.

I don't want to run any cabling in the house at all and I would prefer not to run any outside the house.

The boiler can get its permanent live feed locally from a spur from a local socket.

The only issue is that it needs a Switched Live from the controls upstairs to tell it to run or not.

I was hoping for a solution like this:

1) A 'box' is installed upstairs that takes as an input the Switched Live wire that would normally have gone down the 5-core to the boiler. When that wire becomes live, it sends an ON signal to box 2...

2) 'Box 2' is installed next to the isolator switch box at the boiler and is powered by mains. When it received the ON signal from box 1, it has an output which is a Live going to the connector in the isolator switchbox which would have been the Switched Live coming down the 5-core from the controls upstairs.

The boiler is unaware that it is no longer directly connected to the controls and vice versa.

ControlsUpstairs->SL->[box1] ...radio signal...[box2]->SL->Isolator->Boiler.

Cheers

Simon

PS There is already a remote thermostat in the hall downstairs which talks to the receiver at the cylinder. As I understand it, the Heat Required message from this is used with the Heat part of the timer/control box. When both are active (or Hot Water is on) then the Switched Live is set to on which tells the boiler to start up.

The valves are with the cylinder and controls upstairs so it seems it would be best to leave them there.

 

[steptoe]

Then you need to change your remote stat to a radio programmable thermostats as being the easiest solution. IMO.

Someone with access to a PC may be able to give you a link to one, sorry, Im on my phone just now.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was made at 14:26 ----------

Screwfix 64741

 

[Simon Hewitt]

Then you need to change your remote stat to a radio programmable thermostats as being the easiest solution. IMO.Someone with access to a PC may be able to give you a link to one, sorry, Im on my phone just now.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was made at 14:26 ----------

Screwfix 64741

Not quite sure how that would help.

Assuming the 'programmable' bit means it replaces the box upstairs that has buttons/timers for heat and hot water then how would it (from the hall) communicate/provide power to the valves (upstairs) and the boiler (in the garage)?

 

[steptoe]

The stat in the is already radio link?

If so then you only need to change the programmer to either a radio link one also, or add an extra receiver at your boiler.

What sort of heating system have you got? Y plan, S plan, or something different.?

To be quite honest, this should be a walk in the park for your spark,

This shouldn't really be that hard for him to figure out.

BTW, if its a combi boiler and you have a five core to it you only need 4 of those cores so you shouldn't need anything adding.

 

[chrishaworth]

There doesn't seem to be many radio light controllers which take a 230V input. However, use the 230V to switch a relay and connect it's NO contacts across a radio light switch. Use the receiver to switch the boiler.

Cheers. Chris

 

[Tom Faith]

Is there a device that can 'remotely' supply a switched live to a boiler?Heres my situation:

Boiler is downstairs in garage.

Megaflo cylinder and valves and controls are located two floors above in loft conversion.

All was working fine until a leak got water into the upstairs electrics and ******** things up. It is now dry and controls are working but it killed the neutral wire somewhere between there and the boiler.

Electrician was going to use spare wire in 5-core as neutral but it proved impossible - the wiring has been moved/changed/extended a number of times over the years and it is mostly inaccessible without ripping the house apart.

The proposed solution is to run a new cable from upstairs outside the house, down the wall and into the garage so all the old cabling can be disconnected and ignored. I hate trunking so would like to avoid this if at all possible.

As a non-electrician, it seems to me that the only necessary connection between the boiler and the controls is the switched live since power can be obtained locally (and is currently is jury-rigged to do that so we have hot water and heat).

What I am thinking of is a transmitter/receiver pair similar to the remote thermostat that transmits a Heat Request signal from upstairs to downstairs - when the switched Live upstairs is on, the transmitter sends a signal to the receiver which then creates a local Switched Live for the boiler.

Is there such a device?

Cheers

Simon

Hi Simon

I know exactly what you need... you want a MAINSLINK...

mainslink is a new product from RF Solutions, you wiring in SWITCHED LIVE and NEUTRAL into one box. Then on the other box you wire in LIVE, NEUTRAL and the run a line from the on baord SWITCHED LIVE out to your end device. Then when the Switched live on one box goes LIVE the MAINSLINK sends a signal to the other box and it switches the SWITCHED LIVE out. It all works in real time and seems pretty reliable.

I got one of the first ones from them and it works well enough, the range is quite low at the moment but they tell me that a new version will be out by the beginning of December which has 500m range...

RF Solutions Mainslink it's here...

Good luck!

Tom

 

[ProDave]

Think outside the box.

At the TANK end, all that's needed is a mains supply to open / close a motorised valve. I'm sure you can find a local mains supply somewhere in the loft to do that. Perhaps you would also need a local programmer to set the hot water on times.

The valve will energise when hot water is needed and the tank thermostat calls for heat.

Then all you need is TWO wires from there down to the boiler. These will be the switch contact of the motorised valve.

And because this is just a "volt free" switch contact, it provides isolation, so it doesn not matter if the tank controls are fed from a different supply to the boiler.

So with some re jigging upstairs, you can get away with just 2 wires between the two locations and that should enable you to use the two good cores left in the existing cable perhaps.

but I would still want to know a bit more about how the cable has been damaged and do thorough test of the remaining cores.

You would also need some "warning two supplies" labels on the upstairs wiring to the valve.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Are you sure the boiler does not have a pump run on ?

 

[bryanh]

we used the unit as per Tom's post it works well just one prob its not cheap, but unlike you we didnt have any wires installed between underfloor heating manifold and boiler so we had no choice