Ring Main Starts At Old Cooker Feed Point

[Broburus]

I'm currently helping my dad renovate a bungalow. The kitchen has moved to a bedroom space and the old kitchen will become a study. On removing the old kitchen it's as apparent at some point in the past the incoming cookersupply (on its own 30amp fuse way) was used to create a ring main circuit, (the ring starts and finishes behind a blanking panel presumably where the original cooker switch used to be).

Is this a safe way to source a ring main?

 

[Andy™]

commonly refered to as a 'lollipop' circuit. search for that on here and you will find a lot more info. in short, yes it complies

 

[betty swollocks]

Nothing wrong with it and have done so many times

So long as the cables tests ok why not?

 

[Broburus]

Thanks, great stuff.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I'm currently helping my dad renovate a bungalow. The kitchen has moved to a bedroom space and the old kitchen will become a study. On removing the old kitchen it's as apparent at some point in the past the incoming cookersupply (on its own 30amp fuse way) was used to create a ring main circuit, (the ring starts and finishes behind a blanking panel presumably where the original cooker switch used to be).

Is this a safe way to source a ring main?

I think our Mr Slipshod would find this a very dangerous way to supply a ring main....

It may be Ok for a ring final....

But not a ring main supplying numerous houses in a street!!!!

anyone going to ask about Part P....

old kitchen.. new kitchen?

:coat

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

:Salute   :Salute   :Salute

 

[OnOff]

Erm.............irrespective of Part P issues everybody here is ASSUMING from the OP's that his ORIGINAL cables are actually properly sized! I'm a bit surprised nobody mentioned that. The (dangerous?) "assumption" is I guess that he has a 30A re-wireable fuse with a 6mm (maybe even 4mm) cable of undetermined length feeding the cooker point. Then at the end of this at the old cooker connection point they've connected the new ring in 2.5mm. He says they are "refurbishing" so that might mean that they're upgrading the insulation / covering cables with it. If so his cable current carrying capacities could reduce dramatically. Isn't this one of those "bit more info needed" cases just to be safe?

 

[Steve3948]

Well I've called them Ring Mains for the last 40 years and I ain't changing now it's too late  :run

Hate the name Ring Final, sounds like a competition.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I'm currently helping my dad renovate a bungalow. The kitchen has moved to a bedroom space and the old kitchen will become a study. On removing the old kitchen it's as apparent at some point in the past the incoming cookersupply (on its own 30amp fuse way) was used to create a ring main circuit, (the ring starts and finishes behind a blanking panel presumably where the original cooker switch used to be).

Is this a safe way to source a ring main?

Has this old cooker cable actually been insulation resistance tested to verify it is still electrically intact? Is the old cooker switch position a location where you intend to have a new socket position. Remember you should not just go burying cable joints in walls outside of safe zones. As by your own description you are in the process of renovating and moving the positions of rooms, the better solution may be to run a new leg, (or two new legs), back to the fuse box. Or just make it into a radial if it is only supplying a few sockets. Why do you think it needs to be a ring? You have not provided any details of the new design loading expected to be on this old cooker cable.

Doc H.  

 

[Broburus]

Thank you for the advice.  Much appreciated.  

Bit more background (maybe irrelevant) :

The consumer unit is appx. 5 metres from the existing ring start point.  The old kitchen was used for about 5 weeks with usual appliances, washing machine, microwave, kettle, fridge freezer. 

Now that I know in principle it's not wrong, I'll check into it a bit further, I still have to check the source cable size.

The requirements of the new study will be a pc, monitor, printer, maybe a lamp and phone charger....nothing too beefy! 

Would a radial circuit be a more logical solution ?

 

[NozSpark]

If youre renovating the property then this would be an ideal time to have it fully rewired in all honesty.

But if it's a 6.0 twe feeding a 2.5twe ring and it's only for pc stuff then you it should easily run on a 16A mcb (ifvthe 6.0 requires de-rating)

 

[Doc Hudson]

The requirements of the new study will be a pc, monitor, printer, maybe a lamp and phone charger....nothing too beefy! 

Would a radial circuit be a more logical solution ?

From what you say there a ring would be overkill IMHO. just make it a 20A or 16A radial. Why waste time and money making an unnecessary ring?

Doc H.

 

[pantyvest]

Hi everyone,

Several years ago I was up against the same problem. The existing kitchen ring, serving three double socket outlets, was intact but they wanted extra sockets beneath their new worktops also. I ran a further ring of three double sockets from the cooker point and changed the 45 amp rewireable fuse for a 32 amp mcb. Now, since I work in security, unlike the professionals on here, I need some confirmation. Their built-in electric oven needs changing, and since the replacement is 88 watts (about 4 amps I make it), they want to plug it in where the existing is now plugged in on a 13amp. Can we leave Part P for the time being ?  Given that they are running a fridge and washing machine only off this ring (including the oven - of course), I am persuaded that the new oven should be terminated at a fused spur (not spurred off the ring, but changing the double socket to a spur and socket) and reducing the 32 amp mcb to 20 amp purely as a safety feature. Your comments would be appreciated... and I won't take them personally.. well I might !!!  

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi everyone,

Several years ago I was up against the same problem. The existing kitchen ring, serving three double socket outlets, was intact but they wanted extra sockets beneath their new worktops also. I ran a further ring of three double sockets from the cooker point and changed the 45 amp rewireable fuse for a 32 amp mcb. Now, since I work in security, unlike the professionals on here, I need some confirmation. Their built-in electric oven needs changing, and since the replacement is 88 watts (about 4 amps I make it), they want to plug it in where the existing is now plugged in on a 13amp. Can we leave Part P for the time being ?  Given that they are running a fridge and washing machine only off this ring (including the oven - of course), I am persuaded that the new oven should be terminated at a fused spur (not spurred off the ring, but changing the double socket to a spur and socket) and reducing the 32 amp mcb to 20 amp purely as a safety feature. Your comments would be appreciated... and I won't take them personally.. well I might !!!  

Some numbers not right here methinks???

oven 88watts???  thats about 0.38Amps..

4amps would be 920watts to 960watts dependent on it quoted @ 230v or 240v

not a very powerful oven..??

Wait till April and you can forget Part P in your kitchen anyway!!!

Guinness

 

[pantyvest]

Thanks for that, it's appreciated. So after all this glorification of Part P, it won't apply to kitchens then, I thought that was one of the main bits of part P ? Forgive my ignorance. So do you reckon that this oven should be on a fused spur or plugged in ? and is a 32amp mcb too big ?

 

[steptoe]

if its plugged in then just put a 5amp [or whatever size] fuse in the plug.

 

[pantyvest]

Errmm !!! I should have added a zero to the 88. It's 880 watts which would make it just under 4 amps (I think). Thanks for the last reply by the way. I'm surprised no one has given me a 'ear bashing' so far. Thanks, you're appreciated.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Have you got the oven yet???

If it comes with a molded plug on a flex then your answer is there!!!!!!!!!

 

[col]

If you chop a plug off to hard wire it you may invalidate the warranty

 

[Steve3948]

If you chop a plug off to hard wire it you may invalidate the warranty

Old wives tale, unless the replaced plug top is the cause of the problem.