Running a new cable for shower.

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks Ian932 that was what I wanted to know. I should have used the term 1st fix then I might have stopped some of the confusion. thanks

Hello Plex81. I would just like to point out that the forum is always willing to give practical helpful advice in a friendly manner, whilst keeping within any applicable rules guidance and legal requirements for any electrical work done. On the most down to earth practical level, If a person is undertaking some electrical work, that a third party will be testing and signing to verify safety and compliance with applicable rules, it would only be good manners and polite to verify the design with that person or company before undertaking any alteration work. Rather than agreeing something with strangers on the Internet who have no direct involvement with the project at all. This is the reason for my initial reply suggesting you discuss the work with your electrician first. I consider it probably creates a better working relationship. I am not convinced that your replies created to much confusion, rather that we have a few members who can sometimes get on their hobby horses. For future note, please remember any photograph links can always help with descriptions of a project.

Doc H.

 

[ian932]

You seem to be contradicting yourself here Ian. Your possible scenario you suggest that the OP may be going to crack on with something over the weekend, after he agreed over the forum, then verbally with his spark, Yet I am unsure how he verbally agrees with his spark, without calling him over the bank holiday weekend?. I did not see anyone suggesting the work is hard and your methods may well be appropriate guide for this application for a competent electrician to adopt as part of his his design criteria. But in this case we are not advising the competent electrician who will be testing, certifying and signing off the work. Whichever way you want to look at it, the BS7671 E.I.C. has a signature box relating to the design of the new circuit. Which to my understanding design comes before the physical installation, as such the competent electrician would need a site visit discussing the proposed routes and materials before work commences as well as the visits for first & second fix. Or are you suggesting the forums guidance should ignore the appropriate electrical certificates and declarations of responsibilities? In this case it is best for the OP to verify with his electrician the installation design prior to commencing any work. Unless the OP himself is qualified enough to sign the design aspects of the certificate?Doc H.

Mmmmmm Doc I'll deal with your comments tomorrow/today when I have fed and watered the hobby horse, nite nite

 

[ian932]

Hi Ian932, You took my comments in exactly the wrong way! I was trying to help the bloke learn, not put him off, but first i have to correct a few points you made:

1,Hi, not being funny, but for a start off, someone else cannot certificate your work.

- "Yes they can happens in the real world every day as long as its inspected at key stages"

It may well happen, but it does not make it right!! The first words on an EIC are "I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection and testing" blah blah"

I stand by my comments, you cannot legally sign off someone elses work. I suppose you could if you stood there for every part of the job, but that would still only be borderline legal and would defeat the object of the exercise anyway, as the person doing the signing might as well have done the job himself.

How you going to inspect and sign off things that are now possibly covered up?? Say i install a cable, how do you know that i have not bent it too sharply, or that it is not in contact with sharp edges, or that i have not otherwise damaged it unless you are there when i install it?? bit late just inspecting the ends sticking out later!

2, Before you even start you need to make your mind up what shower you are having or otherwise how are you going to even start to calculate the cable size and MCB required.

- "He is running a 10mm at 15m so he has made allowance for the max shower size on the market"

10.8kw at 230v = 47 amp but 10mm twin and earth, installation method 100 or 101 [above a plasterboard ceiling with respectively up to, and over 100mm insulation] is rated at 45A in the first case, and 36A in the second [OSG page 134 + page 282 in the BRB]

3,Guessing as to what the requirements for bonding etc are is not too good either!

- "Thats why he is asking questions! and he said his spark signed it off during a CU upgrade"

Spark should not have signed it off as the OP clearly stated he INSTALLED THE CU HIMSELF.

4, As previous forum members have said, how are you going to test the completed installation and really importantly, please understand that like Nozspark said, working and safe, are too completely different things. -

"He answered that in his last post, he is using the electrician that did his CU upgrade to test it"

As above, the OP stated he did the CU himself.

5,I am going to give you a bit of advice here.... I know you say you find BS7671 confusing, but go back and have a good read. The answers to all your questions are in it!! -

"Not all his questions are within the BRB, more practical ones are not hence the reason the OP is asking questions and if the BRB had all the answers to all things electrical there would no forum cus we would all read the book"

What questions are not in the BRB then??

Have a good read of appendix 4, chapter 54 and section 701

Everyone on here will try to advise you, but in the long run you would be much better off if you made a big effort to find out for yourself. You will have a much greater understanding then. There is a BIG difference between merely "knowing" [cos someone told you] and understanding... -

"WHAT!!! Get off your box, that

 

[Lee321]

nice one ian. its a drum that some bang incorrectly

quite easy to understand why a provider will state this headbang

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Ian932, I was definitely not just suggesting "****** off and find out for yourself"....

But hey, point taken, sorry if i have offended anyone, not my intention at all. As to learning, yes, i suppose the day we stop learning is the day we die, well, hopefully!!

Anyway, as i say point well and trully taken, please tell me if i go off on one in future!!!

Thanks all.

john..