service cutout fuse

[steptoe]

and people wonder why I think MOST %DFW are a total waste of space?

H&S is about as far as that dunx should go, writing stuff on a bit of paper cause he sure as hell has no idea how the real world actually kills people for taking things they have absolutely no concept of the dangers of into their own hands.

go ahed, fill your boots,

one less wonderkid for cowboy builders to film,

and one less mess for me to go and sort out.

 

[Manator]

Hello Dunx..I can only assume from your comments you are new to the trade?

You say you are with NICEIC?

Do you not get their quarterly publications "Connections" & "Switched On"?

As this topic has been discussed during the past year and review of allowing contractors to open cut-out fuses has been under debate..

Have a look at Issue 16 of Switched On Spring 2010

Article bottom of page 7 headed

"Access to service fuses"

Summary result "DENIED"!!!

Also are you not aware of:-

The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002

Guidance notes can be found here:-

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/tna/+/http://www.dti.gov.uk/electricity-regulations/gfesqcr.pdf/

In a nutshell Paragraph 24(2)

places a specific legal obligation upon DNO to ensure their cut-out fuses on customer premises are to be locked or sealed to prevent access by unathorised persons.

1/ You or I are NOT authorised unless you have some written permission from the DNO of course!

2/ NICEIC / ECS printed articles on this very topic during the past 12 months say you are NOT authorised..

and electrical contractors..

NO MATTER HOW COMPETENT THEY FEEL THEY ARE..

Have been DENIED access to service cut out fuses!

So..

Its not complicated

It is Simple

You cannot legally remove seals & or cut out fuses!

Now what various electricians do or do-not do during their everyday course of business is up to them & they will carry the burden if the brown waste substance hits the rotating ventilation device....

But I cannot see how any competent electrician would ever suggest on an open public forum that cutting seals & removing fuses is a safe or legal practice.

And I would guess Admin & the Mods would be taking some risks if they were to leave such advice posted.

:| :C

I am going to reply with the full quote, the information posted in this quote is almost absolute.

This forum and its members will never condone illegal and dangerous methods of work. One part of being able to prove competancy is to follow ALL guidlines and laws, failure to do this, however competant you think you are will not provide adequate defence to prove your innocence.

Any future posts where members advise the pulling of a fuse carrier will be deleted, as this is clearly illegal.

Thank you SL for the very good post, and yes Admin and moderators will not allow any further posts as you so rightly pointed out.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Indeed.

Doc H.

 

[a1]

I have left the thread here (and it's contents) to serve as a reminder that we do not condone it.

 

[Captain Kirk]

This may not help but may explain.

It is a criminal offence to tamper with any UK power companies equipment. This includes the service fuse and cut out in domestic premises.

In the latter years of the nationalised industry, investigators were employed to check the seals and attach anti-tamper labels to the cut out. A broken wire seal was normally accepted as evidence of tampering and the householder was held resposible for identifying who was responsible and charges of theft of electrical energy were common

The key motive was to prevent theft of electricity. At this time a recognised electrical contractor had to submit a connection application card to the REC offfice which would result in an inspectors visit to connect the additional load or reseal the meter in the event of a replacement consumer unit connection. No fee was charged and a long as the installation work was sound then all was OK.

After privatisation the tampering offence was reinforced by the safety angle of the danger involved and the customers main switch was introduced for single phase thereby eliminating any requirement or excuse to interfere with the meter or service fuse. Investigators inspectors and meter fixers were all done away with and a scheme of approved REC electrical contractors was set up. A non approved contractor had to employ an approved contractor to connect his work

A power company approved contractor underwent training with the REC and and authorised to break and seal cut outs where no switch was provided. As part of assemmemnt the contractor had to have full blast proof facegaurd, safety helmet and fireproof gloves as part of his authority to remove and replace a service fuse.

Additions or reconnections now require the power company to be contacted but it is not the energy supply company, it is the DNO (District Network Operator). For instance my energy supplier is EON but my DNO is Scottish Power (the company origionally responsible for the equipment in that area).

The DNO should be contacted in advance of a connection and should accomodate a timed appointment with contractor to attend. In the case of emergceny the DNO should be contacted immediately after the fuse removal.

As we have heard this is not foolproof and not relaible, but they still have the power to prosecute anybody who breaks a seal, however as long as it is genuine there is seldom an issue. Of course in these days of the shambolic, inefficient privatised era there is a charge for a DNO visit except in the event of their equipment being faulty.

Ex REC 1970 - 2004

 

[OnOff]

Dunx, have a look at my thread here:

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/do-yourself-diy-electrical-forum-electrics/18558-certificate-questions-trying-do-right.html#post248758

Although it's grief with EDF I feel I'm going about it in the right way. Afterwards I'll have traceability etc.

 

[chrishaworth]

SSE just give me paper seals to put on when I remove the cut out. All their new meters in my area (middle of nowhere in Moray) have DP isolators internally, I think the DNOs down there need to get their act together.

Cheers

 

[kelvfoozinda]

Its interesting hearing your problems about this! I work for the contracting arm of a supplier, and as such have been on all the internal courses and have sealing pliers and permission to pull fuses/change and move meters etc. The majority of work I do for the local authority have had the seals broken by someone else....these are never followed up or reported. I'm yet to hear a story from anyone who was prosecuted for breaking seals, and frequently come across dangerously loose tails. We complete re-sealing job's quite often however, and as the Local authority has a pretty good relationship with us we do it same day!

 

[Sidewinder]

kevfoozinda,

I can make a guess at one of the companies you work for, but there is no need to discuss this here, the name that is.

DO you not feel that there is not a level playing field.

Because your contracting company is owned by a supplier/DNO then YOU can cut seals etc.

However, another contractor who is not cannot.

This is one of the issues with the system as I see it, as I was aware of this situation with your "sort" of organisation, and the rest of us.

Please realise that I am not having a go at you, or your company, but, how can there be a level playing field in this instance?

"Normal" contractors do not even have access to the internal courses you mention!

I feel that there may be a bit of "insider trading" going on!

BTW, welcome to the forum, please hang around, I don't really bite, and if I do I'm not venomous to humans!!! ] :x

 

[Manator]

Like Captain Kirk (see above post) I was authorised to do disconnections and reseals, this was long before Part P came about. Most of the larger electrical contractors of which there were only a handful then, had to be on the register of approved electricians. I used to have my certificates registered with the local councils, and would get reminders from them when updates were required.

The safety of anyone doing this type of work was taken very seriously, it was common with the older metal cutouts and ceramic fuse holders, to totally break up in your hands when removing them. When you have witnessed the effects, you think twice about doing it without your blast visor and gloves.

 

[kelvfoozinda]

Oh, I'm pretty convinced its not fair. If they had a scheme involving the same training we undergo and mandatory PPE purchase (face shield, insulated gloves), same as we have to wear, then I can't see a problem ticketing competent, qualified electricians to complete this work. It does seem to me that there would be a regulating nightmare involved however! It would worry me seeing some domestic installers completing work like this, but some of the meter installers from other energy companies that work on our network (G4S, british gas etc.) don't exactly fill me with confidence, so testing competence, or only offering this course of action to napit/niceic members may be an idea!

How about a department within the supplier that can organize re-sealing and a decent number to get hold of them (I don't know what people do currently to organize sealing), there would obviously be a charge, but If its a known figure I can't see much of a problem. It seems half of the trouble is getting hold of someone to seal up!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:57 ----------

The safety of anyone doing this type of work was taken very seriously, it was common with the older metal cutouts and ceramic fuse holders, to totally break up in your hands when removing them. When you have witnessed the effects, you think twice about doing it without your blast visor and gloves.

This happens all too often, I also come across flats with no form of local cutout. The only one will be in a distribution unit in an electrical cupboard somewhere, with 300A fused busbars shimmering in the light!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:01 ----------

Just came across this browsing...someone picked up temporary seals from the Pompey depot. Not seen any of these before!

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk-forum/18488-temp-distribution-network-operator-stickers.html