Spur from a spur. Regulations, problems and solutions - discuss.

[Lee321]

ok then if they are built to 20 amp rating then why have i found and had to replce burnt out sockets? :Salute ray

same here . kitchens dryer and dish washer in same dso :Salute

 

[Lee321]

ive seen countless single fused spurs supplying washing machine and tumble dryer, never seen a domestic dryer or washer coming even close to using 13A, more like 6/7Asame principle would go for a double socket in a kitchen suddenly home owner decides to move things round and plugs in kettle 13A and toaster 13A,

whats the difference?

go put 2 13a loads for 1 hour through a dso see what happens overtime

 

[ProDave]

Well lots of discussion, but no real solution.

The best I can come up with is move the existing double socket as far away from the washing machine as the washing machine's cable will allow, and then if the tumble dryer won't reach to that double socket, then put a longer lead on the tumble dryer.

This will mean the socket being in the bottom of a base unit, with hole(s) cut in the sides of the base unit to pass a 13A plug through.

If the double socket burns out with two high rating loads running at the same time, then that's poor design of the double socket. I have already noted NOT to fit an MK double socket for this application.

At least this complies with regs even if not very elegant, and better than the customer using an extension lead.

If only regs would let actual maximum current dictate design and allow two single 13A spur on spurs.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

But if you have eg 10 double sockets on a 4mm radial fed from a 32A MCB, how much current goes through the socket terminals nearest the DB.

Having 2 13A appliances in one socket does not mean it will be going above its rating.

Do i have to explain the 20A current for hours on end thing again?

Yes prob! I dont think its sinking in! headbang

 

[Badger]

[quote name='Lee

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Well lots of discussion, but no real solution.The best I can come up with is move the existing double socket as far away from the washing machine as the washing machine's cable will allow, and then if the tumble dryer won't reach to that double socket, then put a longer lead on the tumble dryer.

This will mean the socket being in the bottom of a base unit, with hole(s) cut in the sides of the base unit to pass a 13A plug through.

If the double socket burns out with two high rating loads running at the same time, then that's poor design of the double socket. I have already noted NOT to fit an MK double socket for this application.

At least this complies with regs even if not very elegant, and better than the customer using an extension lead.

If only regs would let actual maximum current dictate design and allow two single 13A spur on spurs.

DAVE...What about my idea of putting in a twin back box with a 13A rated single socket and 13A rated SFS...then drill through the wall for the socket in the utility??? ?:|

 

[spinlondon]

I would just like to point out:

All socket-outlets that meet BS1363, are rated at 20A, whether they be double or single. MK socket-outlets, are one of the few that are rated at 26A.

 

[ProDave]

DAVE...What about my idea of putting in a twin back box with a 13A rated single socket and 13A rated SFS...then drill through the wall for the socket in the utility??? ?:|

That's STILL a spur on a spur.

My argument is you can't overload it due to the fuses, so personally I agree with you that it's safe, BUT regs still do not allow a spur on a spur do they? Remember this is fed from a ring final circuit where regs specifically allow a spur to ONE device.

I argue that providing you can prove there cannot be an overload, that precisely what you are suggesting should be allowed, but unless i'm mistaken, it's not.

 

[Hawk81]

A double socket or two singles are capable of drawing the same amount of current. Nobody has a problem with having a double socket as a spur, even though this would be capable of drawing more than 20A as KME has said. So two singles for me. Stop finding reasons to complicate matters. Dont be like some on here and get yourself tangled up in the meaning of words.When something is rated at a particular current rating, it means for eg at 20A rating that cable can take 20A constantly for hours on end, but your sockets will not have to do that.

Let common sense show you the way.

I am understanding you correctly here? are you really saying that they should have a spur off a spur? You say stop finding reasons to complicate matters. Is the regulations not standard and there to be obeyed? Its not like someone has went out to find some silly we theory why this cant be done. In that case why not ignor all regs when it suits us??

 

[betty swollocks]

[quote name='Lee

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Spur off a spur is one of those myths that gets passed on. Show me the reg that says you can't. As long as the cable is not overloaded and you are not creating a massive imbalance in a ring cct, then there is no problem.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Anyway iv got Cluedo to play, back lateropcorn

 

[Badger]

Anyway iv got Cluedo to play, back lateropcorn

i reckon colonel custard, with the pistol in the computer room :^O

 

[betty swollocks]

i reckon prof plum in the kitchen electrocuted unplugging his washer/tumbler

 

[Hawk81]

Spur off a spur is one of those myths that gets passed on. Show me the reg that says you can't. As long as the cable is not overloaded and you are not creating a massive imbalance in a ring cct, then there is no problem.

Get your on site guide turn to page 159 Appendix 8.2.4 if you dont believe me. It says "In an A1 ring final circuit and an A2 radial circuit a non fused spur should feed only one single or one twin or multiple socket outlet" is that myth?? Its in black ans white.

 

[tom1]

2 single sockets and a note in the devation box, if 2g sockets are 13 amps then 2 single would be better yes?

i have seen fcu feeding 2 gang with washer and dryer plugged in. no prob reported, but a bad design

 

[Hawk81]

Is everyone else ignoring the regs?????????????X(X(X(X( X(

 

[Lee321]

But if you have eg 10 double sockets on a 4mm radial fed from a 32A MCB, how much current goes through the socket terminals nearest the DB. 0Having 2 13A appliances in one socket does not mean it will be going above its rating.

Do i have to explain the 20A current for hours on end thing again?

Yes prob! I dont think its sinking in! headbang . your not getting it twin socket outlet 13a drawn out of the right hand outlet and 13a drawn out of the left hand

moral of the storydont buy 50p bargain socket outlets

even mk are rated to 13a (quote by someone else earlier)

 

[Lee321]

2 single sockets and a note in the devation box, if 2g sockets are 13 amps then 2 single would be better yes?i have seen fcu feeding 2 gang with washer and dryer plugged in. no prob reported, but a bad design

just as i said tom :x

 

[Badger]

Is everyone else ignoring the regs?????????????X(X(X(X( X(

no were playing cludeo instead :^O