Start And Finish At Office/yard

[binky]

Isused to put 'estimate' on everything. But on bigger jobs you do kind of need to install  aget out clause so at least you can break even. I'm kind of lucky in that I made all my mistakes on domestic jobs - doesn'y cost so much!

Totally agree with Apache - driving around wholeslaers is total wasted effort. Either pre-order, use Denmans catalogue, or in a rush, phone before driving to ensure wholesaler has parts in stock. Saves a fortune in time )and can get better prices).

 

[pewter]

I agree totally so sort your hourly rate to include the time it takes you to source materials on average.

I make money by way of a margin on drugs I sell, but never charge for the messing about sourcing them (and at times that can take ages).

My call out fee is simply for getting me there. The clock starts once I arrive.

TBH I have only ordered once from TLC so can't comment on them.

I use SF and TS and CPC a lot and can't think of a day that the delivery didn't arrive next day if I order on time (I quite often place orders in the evening so it can take an extra day). SF do free returns. I had a few bits delivered damaged from SF once and they replaced them next day.

I'm not saying that it is the only way but if you plan ahead I imagine you'd save a lot of time. Don't your wholesalers deliver? CEF have a van that runs throughout the Dales. I cannot see it being economical to spend 3 hours sourcing stuff, driving around.

I did say in my post that it is a bit different in faults/emergencies.

 you dont charge for sourcing the drugs but you make money off them.

same difference surly

you are retailing like Tesco or any other shop keeper(or drug pusher).

It seems everyone agrees with the OP and includes there time in there cost one way or another.

Some just give a price for everything

some charge for hours or day and get materials/do paper work in that time

some charge for hours and inflate there hourly rate to cover time lost 

i use all 3 methods individually depending on the job.

I think you guys in the sticks need to plan materials a lot more then us town dwellers where electrical suppliers are plenty.

There are many scenarios which require different methods. 

for example today i had to fit extra lighting into a factory in east London. It was only a days work and due to the relationship i have with the owner, a survey, then source and supply on the same day was the most economic way to approach it.

stopped in Bethenal Green CEF (round the corner), got half the bits, then popped down to Docklands CEF 5-10 mins away for the rest. All fitted by 3 and on my way home.

here in the city the wholesalers are full of sparks who pop round to collect materials during working hours, its no big deal.

alternatively  

some jobs i have done and do require 3 or 4 surveys and meetings. Meetings with facilities managers, security managers, people within the building whos equipment might be affected like the IT people and even people over seas who has servers linked to the UK equipment we are working on.

materials will be acquired weeks before, sometimes in duplicate and checked all is in order weeks before the actual fitting.

then after many man hours of planning the shut down time will come with a few sparks, security and IT people on stand by. The actual work fitting can take just minutes or hours and its all back up and running again.

Different jobs require different methods

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

To summarise what Pewter is saying..  (I think)

anyone who has any noggin about running a business knows full well that

there is not a one-size fits all pricing structure for you to cost jobs...

BUT...

now matter which method you do it to...

All costs MUST be covered somewhere in the invoice or you will ultimately be running at a loss..

and wont be in business very long..

So if a job needs 5min internet order delivered to site by 10:00am next day 

or

if it needs half a day trawling and scouring multiple wholesalers for that matching light fitting to replace the water damaged one...

Then apportion cost proportional to the TOTAL WORK INVOLVED!..

If that makes sence..

or have I Guinness   Guinness   Guinness   Guinness   Guinness   Guinness   

 

[philbas]

Patche as I understand it your employed, not self employed, so you don't make a profit from selling drugs, your employer does.

Do you source these drugs in your own time after work or while your been paid by your employer?

 

[Apache]

Patche as I understand it your employed, not self employed, so you don't make a profit from selling drugs, your employer does.

Do you source these drugs in your own time after work or while your been paid by your employer?

I own the practice. The simple ordering is done by reception staff, but they can only replace like with like. Anything different, new or swapping to a different product requires invariably more or less of my input.

Example - we don't do very much pig work. Had a lady wanted 2 pigs ringing. I had to ring our main wholesaler as the office staff don't know about pig rings. Wait for a fax with pictures and prices. They were wrong so ring back, repeat the process. If I was billing time it maybe took me an hour of messing about. For some applicator pliers at £10 and some 90p rings. If I charge that client £100 to ring those two pigs they aren't going to be especially happy.

 

[philbas]

I own the practice. The simple ordering is done by reception staff, but they can only replace like with like. Anything different, new or swapping to a different product requires invariably more or less of my input.

Example - we don't do very much pig work. Had a lady wanted 2 pigs ringing. I had to ring our main wholesaler as the office staff don't know about pig rings. Wait for a fax with pictures and prices. They were wrong so ring back, repeat the process. If I was billing time it maybe took me an hour of messing about. For some applicator pliers at £10 and some 90p rings. If I charge that client £100 to ring those two pigs they aren't going to be especially happy.

OK but somewhere in the overall scheme of things, someone has to pay for the reception staff and your time, you don't do it for free.

So in fact your other clients all paid a bit to have 2 pigs ringed, even though  they had nothing to do with the pigs.

 

[steptoe]

thats a bit like saying all my customers pay a bit for the day my van will get a flat tyre at Joe Bloggs house, but of course they do,

its about running costs and keeping customers happy, if Jack needs a 6mm through crimp that I bought a bag of while on Johns time, I dont charge him for that time and give John a partial refund, its simply absorbed.

 

[Andy™]

since we are on about buying stuff for jobs, whats the fascination with buying only what you need for a specific job? i dont mean bigger stuff like a lowbay, but accessories etc

been a few times when at wholesaler A N Other has came in and bought 1x double socket & backbox, or 1x light switch. surprised they didnt ask for 108mm of earth sleeving to go with it. if i did that, i would spend 3/4 of my day driving to the wholesalers

 

[steptoe]

totally agree Andy, even when employed Ive had probably enough kit to totally re-wire a 3bed semi in my stores,

I would reckon now I probably have enough to do 2, including 2nd fix,

its just I have problems getting to a lot of it,

I really must get me a decent shed store put up in the new year when I can afford it.

 

[Evans Electric]

since we are on about buying stuff for jobs, whats the fascination with buying only what you need for a specific job? i dont mean bigger stuff like a lowbay, but accessories etc

been a few times when at wholesaler A N Other has came in and bought 1x double socket & backbox, or 1x light switch. surprised they didnt ask for 108mm of earth sleeving to go with it. if i did that, i would spend 3/4 of my day driving to the wholesalers

I've come across quite a few like that Andy  , worked with a guy who would spend forever guessing how many conduit saddles would be needed and go out and fetch exactly the number of angle, tee, through and end boxes and , say , 7 lengths of PVC conduit .   He reckoned he was saving money but was forever going out again for more gear . 

     I would have bought  a bundle  plus a box of each accessory  .   If the job needed 4 sockets he 'd buy 4  yet they come in 5s and you get box quantity price but no ... we need 4 just get 4.

He drove me up the wall TBH

And where I would call at the wholesaler on the way in and get all we needed for the job , he maintained we should be there at 8.00 to impress people .    Now I never saw anyone impressed TBH .  They just shook their heads as he shot off again for more stuff.   

 

[batty]

Going to wholesalers is a total waste of time. I very rarely go in. Just build up a good relationship and get it delivered. As for stock I am totally opposite. I have far to much and at present its a total mess. It needs a week to sort it all out, makes you wish you had an apprentice that could be left a couple of days a week sorting through it all.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

With the way the economy is at the moment a lot of wholesalers are happy to deliver...

irrespective of how long you have been using them...

Its just the bit about where its delivered to and ensuring someone is there to collect / sign for it when it arrives...

Personally I don't like requesting delivering to site just in case something crops up I cant ensure someone is there when the wholesalers van is there...

I'd  rather arrange for home delivery either first thing or last thing in the day if possible..

With such easy access to materials nowadays with wholesalers and internet..

personally its daft keeping bucket loads of stock when you can normally get it within a couple of days notice no probs..

More weight you carry more fuel you use...

More stock lying on shelves the harder it is to find something...

BUT...

There is a subtle difference between.. Deke's bloke trying to get exactly whats needed no more,

and having excess piles of accessories and fittings floating around...

ALSO...

I very important key factor is..

How far away the jobs are and how well you know an area if you did need to pick something up urgently...

I HATE having to leave a job during the day because I didn't plan enough materials to cater for the whole days work... 

I'd rather collect some bits one the way to the job or on the way back from the job for the next day rather than break off mid day then have to come back to continue...  Thats just bad project management IMHO!!

Most of my work is within a short local radius..

so picking up stuff en-route to/from jobs is no big deal....

Some of you guys doing three digits round trips are a different ball game...

may not be feasible to slot in a wholesaler visit en-route and still miss the rush hour grind!!

So bigger personal stock levels would probably be the order of the day!

Horses for Courses is the phrase I think!!

Guinness   Guinness   

 

[steptoe]

Very well put SL, and may I also add, not only personal local knowledge, but simply personal contacts with pick knowledge are of far greater benefit, not for the first time have I been fortunate enough to have a fellow forumite assist me with parts when I have had a distant job in their back yard, thanks Andy

That was a far job for me, 3 figures each way, I usually only do 3 or4 of those each year,

Still, I regularly do a 20mile trip EW daily, but i know the area.

 

[husky2013]

Tip for u all with paperwork and admin    gets done alot faster then

i have my admin day/evening which is normally a sunday evening, this is when i settle down with each rough copy cert handwritten and i type it all up nice and neat on logo's certs, a reciept of payment, or invoice and a covering letter  if it a notifiable job then it goes into a nice Part P Folder into an A4 Envelope and then notified and ticked off my list.

then on the monday they are either hand delivered or send 1st class recorded delivery if they a bit further away.

as for wholesalers trips etc, we live 30seconds away from our nearese electricfix and edmunsons so it aint to bad, i also know a few members of staff there so i can ring them before they even open or even after theyve closed to pop an order on for me and it will be sorted and ready for me to collect the following day unless it a warehouse order which normally means it will be after 11am. 

Wouldnt trust next day delivery ever again aftera  job last year went pete tong when we where waiting for materials to be delivered to site and parcel farce lost the materials, then found them, then wanted me to go to liverpool to collect it because the driver wasnt due back in the area untill the following day, kicked up a stink and got the materials later on that night!  but never again will i use next day!