That "summation" supply Job

[kme]

Was completed on Monday....

However, it started on Friday, with Western Power & Swalec attending at the same time.

Western power (although already agreed otherwise) WANTED to "do a test to see if we can give you PME". Nah - I`ll pass. We`ll keep it TT.

So we get two nice shiny new cutouts, with 20KVA per head.

Swalec guy brings in "summation meter" (lying gits, its a TPN with 3&4 plugged up!)

He starts running supply tails (16mm phase to 1 & 5)

Customer phases to 2 and 6 - I`m using 25mm.).

Then he stuffs a 25mm neutral from one HED to meter 7, and offers me 8 for my "combined neutral".

" What "combined neutral"?" I`ve got 2 seperate boards going in.

DNO jointer is looking confused, as am I.

" I would have expected 2 neutrals. You do realise that is going to be carrying all of the combined load from both HEDs?"

The Swalec guy has to get on the `phone to head office; after saying to me & the jointer "I`m not a spark. I`ve done a 2 day course to fit meters."

headbangheadbangheadbang!!!!! WHAT???

They can`t use 35mm, as it won`t fit in the meter. They make him upgrade his phases to 25mm, `cos I`m using 25, but won`t / can`t give me a henley for the neutrals, so I have to "loop" 25mm neutral conductors through one of the main switches.

The DNO guy was really unhappy, as was I; but Mr. Meter guy didn`t have a flippin` clue!

And he happened to let slip that they office is thinking of sending them on another 1 day course to change GAS meters......... bad day explode

:good night: :good luck: :red card

 

[Evans Electric]

That summed it up a treat M8, Never assume the guy fitting the meters knows anything other than incoming on left, outgoing on right .

Years back we were doing something or other with the mains at a large school , MEB meter man attending . My mate had to stop him disconnecting the main neutral (TPN) , school fully occupied ,all lights on . Kept saying its OK its only the neutral , only changed his mind when we said wait till we have left the switchroom then .

 

[Sidewinder]

KME,

I would get that in writing to the client, the DNO & the metering operator recorded delivery if I were you!

Mind, after next June/July we should be able to tell them what to do!

]

 

[steptoe]

KME,I would get that in writing to the client, the DNO & the metering operator recorded delivery if I were you!

Mind, after next June/July we should be able to tell them what to do!

]

what have I missed oh great side one.? :worship

I agree with previous, this is a ludicrous situation we find ourselves in,

doing it properly only to have some numpty on a 5minute course actually supplying the juice, headbang headbang headbang

 

[Sidewinder]

Once Amd1 comes into place then we are allowed to officially comment etc. on DNO side!

Thus we can then issue EDN's etc. on DNO kit!

Remember the 17th triggered an ammendment to ESQCR, NOT the other way around!

 

[ProDave]

Reminds me of my episode with an incorrectly wired temporary 3 phase generator supplied by the DNO after a storm brought down overhead power lines.

After much of the equipment in the house blew up I was called by house owner. I discovered house neutral had been connected to one phase, not the star point. So I shut down the genny and called the DNO.

The linesmen turned up, restarted genny, and checked with a VOLT STICK and said "what's your problem mate" I then got my volt METER and showed them the problem.

Unbelievable that the guys in charge of what is potentially the most dangerous part of an installation are 5 day wonders with no actual knowledge of electricity.

 

[steptoe]

Once Amd1 comes into place then we are allowed to officially comment etc. on DNO side!Thus we can then issue EDN's etc. on DNO kit!

Remember the 17th triggered an ammendment to ESQCR, NOT the other way around!

AAAHHHHH

thanks Sidewinder,

I thought I was even more behind the times than usual.

I FAAAANK you.

 

[kme]

The linesmen turned up, restarted genny, and checked with a VOLT STICK and said "what's your problem mate" I then got my volt METER and showed them the problem.

Had the linesman used his VOLT STICK correctly, he would have identified this problem.

When they spliced in the 2 HEDs, they, I and the metering guy ALL used volt sticks to check that:

1. both live sides of the HEDs were live.

2. neither of the neutrals were live.

The DNO would have used a volt meter to verify that both HEDs were of the same phase; but I beat `em to it.......

I do agree with your comments, however that felt to me like a continuation of the discussion from another thread.....

KME

 

[wozz]

when you say volt stick do you actually mean a volt stick as in a fluke ac1 or a neon indicator (pen type not the martindale type)?

 

[kme]

I mean "pen type" fluke, etc.

A neon screwdriver, if you search back through the archives, is one of the worst objects you could possibly have...........

Why would you intentionally make your body part of the path of a live circuit, with the current limited by a tiny carbon resistor????

 

[Tooold]

On the metering side of the thread, talking to a spark fitting a new meter and cutout about 2 years ago for I think eon he said and I quote "at the moment the most electric shocks received are by gas service engineers because Bitish gas electric meter changers are 1 day wonders and keep reversing the polarity and pretty much the only thing not to work is the boiler so when they test the live its not but the neutral is!" Hope its changed now!!

 

[ProDave]

On the metering side of the thread, talking to a spark fitting a new meter and cutout about 2 years ago for I think eon he said and I quote "at the moment the most electric shocks received are by gas service engineers because Bitish gas electric meter changers are 1 day wonders and keep reversing the polarity and pretty much the only thing not to work is the boiler so when they test the live its not but the neutral is!" Hope its changed now!!

Explain why a boiler would not work with reverse polarity?

Also explain why a meter monkey is allowed to change a meter, but not, apparently, required to do any tests to confirm that his work is correct in any way?

That's like us changing say a 13A socket front, but not doing a basic check for correct polarity?

 

[ProDave]

On the metering side of the thread, talking to a spark fitting a new meter and cutout about 2 years ago for I think eon he said and I quote "at the moment the most electric shocks received are by gas service engineers because Bitish gas electric meter changers are 1 day wonders and keep reversing the polarity and pretty much the only thing not to work is the boiler so when they test the live its not but the neutral is!" Hope its changed now!!

Explain why a boiler would not work with reverse polarity?

Also explain why a meter monkey is allowed to change a meter, but not, apparently, required to do any tests to confirm that his work is correct in any way?

That's like us changing say a 13A socket front, but not doing a basic check for correct polarity?

 

[kme]

Explain why a boiler would not work with reverse polarity?

The electronics tend to get upset - although the PCB power itself is rectified; it is dealing with the ignitor, external controls, fan, and possibly gas valve etc. at (possibly) 230VAC, or an odd voltage (i.e. ramped), supplied via triac or thyristor, in which case there can be problems

Also explain why a meter monkey is allowed to change a meter, but not, apparently, required to do any tests to confirm that his work is correct in any way?

Cost effectiveness I suppose. They ARE required to carry out tests; but some aren`t as judicious as they should be, perhaps?

That's like us changing say a 13A socket front, but not doing a basic check for correct polarity?

And there are probably many, many sparks who don`t - same as those who can do a full rewire without having access to ANY test equipment headbang

KME

 

[kme]

Explain why a boiler would not work with reverse polarity?

The electronics tend to get upset - although the PCB power itself is rectified; it is dealing with the ignitor, external controls, fan, and possibly gas valve etc. at (possibly) 230VAC, or an odd voltage (i.e. ramped), supplied via triac or thyristor, in which case there can be problems

Also explain why a meter monkey is allowed to change a meter, but not, apparently, required to do any tests to confirm that his work is correct in any way?

Cost effectiveness I suppose. They ARE required to carry out tests; but some aren`t as judicious as they should be, perhaps?

That's like us changing say a 13A socket front, but not doing a basic check for correct polarity?

And there are probably many, many sparks who don`t - same as those who can do a full rewire without having access to ANY test equipment headbang

KME

 

[steptoe]

I mean "pen type" fluke, etc.A neon screwdriver, if you search back through the archives, is one of the worst objects you could possibly have...........

Why would you intentionally make your body part of the path of a live circuit, with the current limited by a tiny carbon resistor????

in your opinion.!

I wouldnt be without one,

tell me a faster easier way to prove a broken neutral and I'll try it.

I know I know,

and probably not a good place when we have learners present,

but then they shouldnt even be working live if they are still learning, should they.?

neons are by far more accurate than volt sticks every time, volt sticks will glow on a 9v battery FFS, or just about any induced source,

like any piece of equipment, volt sticks and neons alike need to be used with extreme caution by experienced and skilled people.

 

[steptoe]

I mean "pen type" fluke, etc.A neon screwdriver, if you search back through the archives, is one of the worst objects you could possibly have...........

Why would you intentionally make your body part of the path of a live circuit, with the current limited by a tiny carbon resistor????

in your opinion.!

I wouldnt be without one,

tell me a faster easier way to prove a broken neutral and I'll try it.

I know I know,

and probably not a good place when we have learners present,

but then they shouldnt even be working live if they are still learning, should they.?

neons are by far more accurate than volt sticks every time, volt sticks will glow on a 9v battery FFS, or just about any induced source,

like any piece of equipment, volt sticks and neons alike need to be used with extreme caution by experienced and skilled people.

 

[Andy™]

tell me a faster easier way to prove a broken neutral and I'll try it.

fluke T140 (& others) will give a live warning with only 1 probe connected.

and it doesnt use your body as part of it

 

[Andy™]

tell me a faster easier way to prove a broken neutral and I'll try it.

fluke T140 (& others) will give a live warning with only 1 probe connected.

and it doesnt use your body as part of it

 

[steptoe]

[quote name='Andy