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Two DNO supply cables in the same head?
- Thread starter biggles69
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Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
None of your business, TBH
Why does it matter to you what the "other cable" is? You know the earthing system for the installation -you don`t need any other knowledge. If you think something is wrong, call the DNO and report it.
Apart from the obvious dangers, there are also two other issues:
1. If someone has illegally tapped into the supply, you have effectively obliterated any fingerprint evidence there may be, and substituted your own - leaving you to prove that you weren`t tampering with supply.
2. You have commited a CRIMINAL offence by opening the service head. Would you happily steal something from the wholesalers because you needed it for a job, but didn`t have any money? It is the same thing!!!!
KME
the first pic has black insulation on neutral conductors - only split con has insulated neutral
I think that extra cable on the right hand side of the supply has been put in by a third party, and that DNO should have at least been asked if that cable is correct as it doesnt look safe in my honest opinion.
if cable on right is a load, and not feed, then it will in effect have no earth. the service head looks like a TNS type head, where the neutral & earth are not one solid block, so the load cable earth is connected to nothing...
also, the supply to the property may well be TT - have seen many heads like that which dont have an earth connected into the earth block in the head - which could be dangerous and DNO should not install that type head
Many TT supplies don`t have an earth at the service head position. As said earlier, that`s ESQCR regs, and basically nothing to do with us, IMO.
Get off your high horse mate.
1. Somehow, i dont think i would have a problem as i have many contacts within my local DNO, who are also happy for me to cut and reseal any service fuses i remove.
2. Which law has been broken? The DNO's? Yeah right. Opening the head is NOT a criminal offence, plus the fact it has to be proved that electricity was being "stolen", which, unless there would obvious signs of tampering, ie line taps still in situ etc., would be impossible.
sparkss
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The cutting of a seal is effectively criminal damage as it is DNO proptety.
I know that my DNO takes the matter of opening of a cut out very serously. also there is the fact it could be deamed an offence under EAWR. if you suspect any problem with DNO equiptment it should be reported as if an offence has been commited then it all can be used as evidence in a court of law. I dont see how KME is on his high horse as he is only stateing the correct way to deal with things.
and as for haveing many contacts within the DNO who are happy for you to cut seals i wounder if they would also have this wrote down and then stand up and put there jobs on the line if an accident was to happen?
do you have accsess to the COP for fuse removel includeing correct PPE as required by DNO regs as it is theres. ?
I know that my DNO takes the matter of opening of a cut out very serously. also there is the fact it could be deamed an offence under EAWR. if you suspect any problem with DNO equiptment it should be reported as if an offence has been commited then it all can be used as evidence in a court of law. I dont see how KME is on his high horse as he is only stateing the correct way to deal with things.
and as for haveing many contacts within the DNO who are happy for you to cut seals i wounder if they would also have this wrote down and then stand up and put there jobs on the line if an accident was to happen?
do you have accsess to the COP for fuse removel includeing correct PPE as required by DNO regs as it is theres. ?
nicks electrix
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Applaud SmileyApplaud SmileyApplaud Smiley
I know exactly the correct way to deal with things and the correct equipment, as I used to work for them many years ago.
Plus the fact i have NEVER known ANY DNO take an electrician to court over cutting seals and removing fuses to carry out safe consumer unit replacements.
They indeed would have a very tough time proving it, especially under the EAWR.
EDIT: but yes, maybe kme is correct. Why should i care if the utilities are getting robbed?
They are doing it that to their customers everyday, but nobody complains about that.
c
sparkss
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theres a diffrence to removeing a fuse to dismantleing a cut out though.
as this is what the topic is based around, i know many engineers older than me who have been with us since is was the old area boards and the way they work to they was we work are diffrent just because someone has worked within the industry dosent mean that there old ways will meet the new ones, for example with in e.on we have central networks, energy services, and metering services, but only us with in CN can remove any other part than the fuse, and the other two cannot remove the fuse if certain things arnt met.
the simple reason is ES and MS are lone workers and therefore cannot remove any other part but the fuse, its a two man job to take apart cut out, the older guys would quite happliy smash open a pitch filled cutout live with a teeshirt and shorts on, but times change and so do the way things are done, not in a huge way but compony wise, i have known engineers who have been with is all there lives be disiplined for not following COP i have also know MOP who have been fined for messing with our equiptment, how i know this? im the one who goes out first off as restoration of supply, and ive build cases with our legal team agaisnt people, just because things arnt in the press dont mean it dosent happen,
as this is what the topic is based around, i know many engineers older than me who have been with us since is was the old area boards and the way they work to they was we work are diffrent just because someone has worked within the industry dosent mean that there old ways will meet the new ones, for example with in e.on we have central networks, energy services, and metering services, but only us with in CN can remove any other part than the fuse, and the other two cannot remove the fuse if certain things arnt met.
the simple reason is ES and MS are lone workers and therefore cannot remove any other part but the fuse, its a two man job to take apart cut out, the older guys would quite happliy smash open a pitch filled cutout live with a teeshirt and shorts on, but times change and so do the way things are done, not in a huge way but compony wise, i have known engineers who have been with is all there lives be disiplined for not following COP i have also know MOP who have been fined for messing with our equiptment, how i know this? im the one who goes out first off as restoration of supply, and ive build cases with our legal team agaisnt people, just because things arnt in the press dont mean it dosent happen,
I appreciate times do and have changed a fair bit, and yes, it was a little OT as to the original post, however, a spark SHOULD build up a good relationship with their local DNO operatives so that things do not go misunderstood, and can also assist each other.
We are all roughly part of the same team.
However, i can also see why the DNO's do not want to get involved with some.
We are all roughly part of the same team.
However, i can also see why the DNO's do not want to get involved with some.
In the case of the actual original point in this thread, there was no need to dismantle the cutout. 2 cables, common occurrence, I wouldn't have taken it to bits, and I don;t have a good relationship with any current DNO operatives, not that I'd have needed them anyway if I'd seen 2 cables in 1 cutout.
sparkss
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This is true, i have a ok relatioship with some guys but covering exactly what i do can cause a few problems. i have been known to go out to building sites ect and disconnect for the simple reason it was TNCS. jointing at the momment is the second thing i do, health and saftey and haveing people working on the network safely is my first job.
the main thing that bothers me and the compony is that most plain sparkys im talking house bashers here, do not have the trainning to work on DNO based equiptment or rather do not have the saftey knowlege to do it safley, how many sparks out there normal day to day will be in double nomex in case of arcs or wearing a visor/ins gloves to pull a fuse ok, 99% of the time it will be fine but its that what if it only takes a number of events before during or after what is being done to end in big problems,
personly i wouldent want to be on the end of a live cable kind of ironic as i am most days but with PPE!! :_|
the main thing that bothers me and the compony is that most plain sparkys im talking house bashers here, do not have the trainning to work on DNO based equiptment or rather do not have the saftey knowlege to do it safley, how many sparks out there normal day to day will be in double nomex in case of arcs or wearing a visor/ins gloves to pull a fuse ok, 99% of the time it will be fine but its that what if it only takes a number of events before during or after what is being done to end in big problems,
personly i wouldent want to be on the end of a live cable kind of ironic as i am most days but with PPE!! :_|
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Salient words Sparkss!
Excuse me? I simply stated the facts and the law as I know them.
I assume that`s as close to an apology as I can expect..........
My reasons for stating the law as I did were simple:
Many people come to this site and read the threads - not all of whom are sparkies.
When the O/P has opened the cutout, and another member says they would have done the same, I have concerns that joe bloggs may think this is a perfectly reasonable course of action, as may some of the less-knowledgeable electricians and trainees on the forum.
I thought, for safety, it was better to make it obvious that this was not in an electricians remit, and possible consequences are death or worse.
This is not a joke. So you pull DNO fuses?? If you ever go to an older one, which smashes when gripped to remove, you`d be really glad of all the PPE - if you were using it!
Remember folks - these are only my opinions. Niceguy - try living up to your username, and don`t assume I even OWN a horse.
See Steptoe.
KME
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