Whats That Test Meter?????

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Been doing some investigations for a customer who's having a few problems following a builder and his spark doing some "poor quality" work last year....

Customer had problems with RCD tripping off at random..

Builders spark replaced faulty RCD with new RCD, but customer still a bit worried..

I did some work back in January for this blokes relatives so he asked me to cast an eye over his job to see what I thought.....

Loads of problems e.g. Faulty 30ma RCD was replaced with 100ma RCD by builders spark...  Stopped the tripping!!!

But now NO 30ma RCD protection to any circuits!

The old 30ma RCD was left by CU.. and it was actually faulty..

BUT...  so was the new garden wiring mr builder & co fitted..

Insulation res reading 0.03Meg to Earth!!

Plus the outdoor circuit is old downstairs shower circuit 40A MCB -> via 6.0mm T&E to bodged outdoor box where 6.0mm splits

(via screw terminal blocks) to 2.5mm & 1.5mm feeding outdoor sockets & lights and pond feature stuff..

NO fusing down.. all still off the 40A MCB and now the 100ma RCD!

I asked if he had any certificate.. shocked when customer said YES!!

Loads of errors on the cert.. such as RCD ratings of 50ma and 49ma for two lighting circuits.....

That are not connected to an RCD..   [old split load board]

Now here's my question....

for the test instrument serial number in the Earth loop box it says  "1012 F MULTI"  with ditto in all the other boxes...

Now I am pretty darn sure that is not a serial number...

BUT..  is it a model number.. Or just random numbers and letters picked by this cowboy?

The cert is signed and dated and has a contractors address..  and once I've posted back my observations to the customer I think he's going to pay a visit to trading standards..

As he has other ongoing issues with the builder as well, leaky roof and outstanding payments etc...

So any ideas men what 1012 F MULTI could relate to??? 

I think Deke may be able to offer some Bert Weedon guitar books as a prize if anyone can suss it out before midnight!??

:^O    Guinness   Guinness

 

[roys]

I have only done a google search on 1012 meter and it came up with a Kyoritsu Multimeter, so just a standard multimeter, certainaly no IR testing or RCD testing with it.

 

[Murdoch]

BUT...  so was the new garden wiring mr builder & co fitted..

Insulation res reading 0.03Meg to Earth!!

Plus the outdoor circuit is old downstairs shower circuit 40A MCB -> via 6.0mm T&E to bodged outdoor box where 6.0mm splits

(via screw terminal blocks) to 2.5mm & 1.5mm feeding outdoor sockets & lights and pond feature stuff..

NO fusing down.. all still off the 40A MCB and now the 100ma RCD!

Is the low IR related to the outdoor circuit? 

Did you do separate IR tests on the 2.5mm and 1.5mm ?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Is the low IR related to the outdoor circuit? 

Did you do separate IR tests on the 2.5mm and 1.5mm ?

I will repeat the question for you......

So any ideas men what "1012 F MULTI" could relate to??? 

:shakehead

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I have only done a google search on 1012 meter and it came up with a Kyoritsu Multimeter, so just a standard multimeter, certainaly no IR testing or RCD testing with it.

I've tried googling various combinations as it didn't ring any bells with me...

I have a gut feeling its just made up, same as the invisible 49ma rated RCD allegedly protecting the lights!!    :slap

 

[Sidney]

Judging by the post about the install do you honestly think they even know what a test meter is let alone know how to use one?

The customer definitely needs to take this further with trading standard and LABC, not that anything will happen...

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Judging by the post about the install do you honestly think they even know what a test meter is let alone know how to use one?

The customer definitely needs to take this further with trading standard and LABC, not that anything will happen...

Agree 100%,  Just though I'd check with the forums years of knowledge in case someone said oh yeah that's the model number of an old blah - blah - blah tester!

Anyway I am doing a report of my observations for the customer and I think he will pursue it further..

But it is a customer employed builder, builder employed spark arrangement... so may be a bit more long winded ?

Either way builder gave the customer this "certificate" toilet paper to cover the electrics!

Which IMHO is a blatant breach of miss selling what the customer thinks he has purchased.

Just to give you another laugh..

the only details given for the outdoor circuit is... and I quote:

[Circuit no] 1,   [Designation]  Old Shower/outside,   [Wiring type] A,  [Ref method] 100.

....end of quote!

:slap

And yet... (assuming they are real names)....

some plonker has put a name address and signature in the boxes stating compliance with BS7671

Plus another signature for someone who's reviewed the cert!!  :Chairfall

  msl1:

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Forgot to add.....

A postcode search for this "electrician" gave no results on the competent persons search website.

http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/

Bet no one is surprised by that either?

:C

 

[Sidney]

Are they claiming any scheme registration?

I'm not a fan of schemes but if they get sued for using a scheme logo at least it's more money out of the dodgy builders pocket.

 

[Murdoch]

I will repeat the question for you......

So any ideas men what "1012 F MULTI" could relate to??? 

:shakehead

I know what the questing was ... I was just wondering if you made any attempt to confirm if any of the test results....

Or is the entire certificate a work of fiction

 

[Tony S]

I have only done a google search on 1012 meter and it came up with a Kyoritsu Multimeter, so just a standard multimeter, certainaly no IR testing or RCD testing with it.

Same here

https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/files/en/catalog/1011_12-1E.pdf

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I know what the questing was ... I was just wondering if you made any attempt to confirm if any of the test results....

Or is the entire certificate a work of fiction

Yes...   I did just under 5 hours of investigations and testing on site...

Sufficient enough for me to conclude that the 5 x A4 pages that my customer has are somewhere between...

Gross incompetence and Blatant fraudulent representation of the condition of his electrical installation.

But it is not entire fiction.....

the name and address of both customer and contractor are legitimate (I have found his name on a Yell.Com listing)..

The BSEN number of the main switch 60947 is correct as is; 2 poles, Copper & 25mm...

And the date looks correct and the tick box stating An Alteration has a tick in it!!!

Other stuff goes a bit downhill..   Ze is stated as 0.28ohm with a Pfc of 9kA ????

Whereas my meter gave  Ze 0.13ohms  and Pfc 1.86kA   with Pscc 2.05kA 

(out of curiosity a  Zs at the board with all bonding back connected was 0.11ohms)

I get the impression from what the customer says that the builder did most of the work...

Including the electrical bits!

The electrician came to swap out the RCD when the old one kept tripping...

and it took months to get hold of this 5 page electrical fiction paperback.

:shakehead

 

[kerching]

Contractors 'name' may be legit.....but does he know he has done the work

 

[Risteard]

Whereas my meter gave  Ze 0.13ohms  and Pfc 1.86kA   with Pscc 2.05kA 

(out of curiosity a  Zs at the board with all bonding back connected was 0.11ohms)

Going to have to be pernickety here:

You got a PEFC of 1.86kA and PSCC of 2.05kA and therefore your PFC was 2.05kA.

 

[Evans Electric]

A postcode search for this "electrician" gave no results on the competent persons search website

Blimey  !  Even I'm on there. 

NB :    

If you think I'll part with my Bert Weedon    Play in  a Day  guitar book  you can think again my good friend.  :redcard

The customer definitely needs to take this further with trading standard and LABC, not that anything will happen...

How very true that is    .......unless of course he ,s using their logo on his paperwork.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Going to have to be pernickety here:

You got a PEFC of 1.86kA and PSCC of 2.05kA and therefore your PFC was 2.05kA.

Or surely you mean my Ipf  is 2.05kA  

Don't recall seeing a 'PFC' box on my certs :innocent

Guinness

 

[Marvo]

There's a Fluke 101 also known as F-101, it's a very basic multimeter, maybe he had two of them. http://www.fluke.com/fluke/iden/digital-multimeters/compact-multimeters/fluke-101.htm?pid=77003

 

[Risteard]

Or surely you mean my Ipf  is 2.05kA  

Don't recall seeing a 'PFC' box on my certs :innocent

Guinness

I think you will find that Ipf is still PFC. Otherwise you would have to claim that there is no such thing as earth fault loop impedance but only Zs.