Your thoughts ladies & gentlemen please

[scrag]

Thankyou steptoe. The answer is yes and they know I would not sign it off. They know I am a jobsworth unfortunately. And they would have to rip it out if I were not happy. We all do it to some degree

 

[steptoe]

Thankyou steptoe. The answer is yes and they know I would not sign it off. They know I am a jobsworth unfortunately. And they would have to rip it out if I were not happy. We all do it to some degree

what.?

 

[Manator]

I fully agree, one of the problems with most statutes of law is interpretation, unfortunately this is unavoidable as with all walks of life. One thing I am sure of is that the BRB will never be accepted as law, just a guidance, as a recent court case proved.

Its a shame because it flies in the face of any respectable electrician be they the 5dw or the time served. I have no distinction providing they follow what they believe in, and we all respected the BRB as a sort of bible, until a court judge decided otherwise.

 

[scrag]

Thankyou manator. I live in a part of the country where it's hard to make a crust.

Steptoe?????? Have you ever reported someone!!!!!! I have...... Lots of times.... Absolutely nothing happens. So why bother. No ones interested. Unless there's a fatality or fire or something. Unfortunately this industry does not kill enough people

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:31 ----------

Mandator. What case was that. I would be interested

 

[Manator]

Thankyou manator. I live in a part of the country where it's hard to make a crust. Steptoe?????? Have you ever reported someone!!!!!! I have...... Lots of times.... Absolutely nothing happens. So why bother. No ones interested. Unless there's a fatality or fire or something. Unfortunately this industry does not kill enough people

I think the word is fortunately, even if carried out by cowboys death or injury will always be bad, and the death rate increasing to prove our worth ? I would rather bake bread or something.

 

[scrag]

Yeah. Sorry your right. But you know what I mean. If I could make a living at making bread I would

 

[steptoe]

I fully agree, one of the problems with most statutes of law is interpretation, unfortunately this is unavoidable as with all walks of life. One thing I am sure of is that the BRB will never be accepted as law, just a guidance, as a recent court case proved.Its a shame because it flies in the face of any respectable electrician be they the 5dw or the time served. I have no distinction providing they follow what they believe in, and we all respected the BRB as a sort of bible, until a court judge decided otherwise.

sometimes,

Thankyou manator. I live in a part of the country where it's hard to make a crust. Steptoe?????? Have you ever reported someone!!!!!! I have...... Lots of times.... Absolutely nothing happens. So why bother. No ones interested. Unless there's a fatality or fire or something. Unfortunately this industry does not kill enough people

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:31 ----------

Mandator. What case was that. I would be interested

who have you reported them too? BC , scam , ?

yes,?

but it has been on a few occasions where I have been asked to verify new builds, on one occasion BC made them take back the wiring /plaster to brickwork level, the other they demanded an NICEIC AC rewired the whole house,

I didnt get the work, TBH I didnt want it, but the case being someone else paying good money made it worth their while and the builder hopefully learned not to try cut corners.

testing builders work will never set you up in business.

 

[scrag]

I have reported to BC. One man does the job. Cannot cope with workload. Also works direct for council doing maintenance. Good man. Know him. Not physically possible.

Niceic. Not interested. Contacts electrician work gets put right somehow. Never get response. I got reported once by overzealous electrician worrying my client that has a heart condition. I was furious. Took me three days. Pulling back carpets, cutting up floors, breaking through Walls. Junction box city. To prove it was not my fault, but a rodent and a tiler. Three days, two men, no pay. Cause niceic said sort it. Me despondent. No. Never. However changing tactics at moment and seems to be working

 

[kme]

Reporting to LABC is pointless.

If the industry is getting you down that much, for your own health I`d recommend a career change mate.

I`d love to hear how you got to needing 48 man hours to find a redent and/or tiler fault. And how were the NIC involved?

 

[steptoe]

I fully agree, one of the problems with most statutes of law is interpretation, unfortunately this is unavoidable as with all walks of life. One thing I am sure of is that the BRB will never be accepted as law, just a guidance, as a recent court case proved.Its a shame because it flies in the face of any respectable electrician be they the 5dw or the time served. I have no distinction providing they follow what they believe in, and we all respected the BRB as a sort of bible, until a court judge decided otherwise.

Thankyou manator. I live in a part of the country where it's hard to make a crust. Steptoe?????? Have you ever reported someone!!!!!! I have...... Lots of times.... Absolutely nothing happens. So why bother. No ones interested. Unless there's a fatality or fire or something. Unfortunately this industry does not kill enough people

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:31 ----------

Mandator. What case was that. I would be interested

I have reported to BC. One man does the job. Cannot cope with workload. Also works direct for council doing maintenance. Good man. Know him. Not physically possible. Niceic. Not interested. Contacts electrician work gets put right somehow. Never get response. I got reported once by overzealous electrician worrying my client that has a heart condition. I was furious. Took me three days. Pulling back carpets, cutting up floors, breaking through Walls. Junction box city. To prove it was not my fault, but a rodent and a tiler. Three days, two men, no pay. Cause niceic said sort it. Me despondent. No. Never. However changing tactics at moment and seems to be working

can you actually explain that post,?

it may just be me in my old age,

but I actually find it pretty incoherent.

 

[scrag]

Like I said. Fully decorated, grandfatherclocks,carpets,hardboard, Lino tiles(stuck) and tong and groove flooring, dwarf Walls, furniture floor too cieling. Two issues. We wired for kitchen refit. Finished job. Tested and cert. Client employed tiler who removed sockets and nicked neutral when scewing back. First fault. Rodents then chews through cables under toilet floor. No access. Rewired it. 48 man hours. Happy. Customer at end of day. But would not entertain costs. My loss.

Yes. Would get out off trade tomorrow if I could

 

[Mr Smith]

mr scrag

a little more effort into your posts would be appreciated

at first glance it appears to be a condensed version of

war and peace

descriptions are much better than sound bites

i am sure you understand

thank you

mr smith

 

[scrag]

Yes. I do appologise for the incoherence and lack os detail and what may appear to some as arrogance. I am somewhat despondent with the industry at the moment having to shell out for this and that. When part P came out I wrongly thought great, at last, they are starting to sort the industry out but in my opinion it has only made matters worse as there does not seem to be any consequence when cowboys are reported.

The incoherence last night was also due to being very tired, and typing on a phone with sausage fingers. I shall endevour to use a bit more effort in the future

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Sorry chaps. I gota agree and disagree with alot of the comments and feel that I have started something that has a lot of views, wrongly or rightly. I strongly feel THAT, if you are willing to accept that the Installation complies and you are willing to take responsibility then sign it off. Simple, simple as that.

I strongly feel that we live in a namby pamby state. Nobody is able or they are to scared to be responsible for their actions.

This is a very interesting forum with for and against views all of which are valid. Clarity is what is required and common sence.

Interesting how a thread develops...

appears to start about a competent self certing electrician helping an older spark out...

As it proceeds on.... this quoted post and some of your later posts on this thread actual imply it is an electrician who his struggling a bit,

unable to work in accordance with the reg's and industry standard guidance...

Has got a bit of the hump because they feel the regs don't apply to them and they can pick and choose what and how they do it

cuz their work is all good and safe anyway..

So should be allowed to just get on with things how they want too..

BUT... deep down they still know its wrong cuz they come onto forum's looking for justification for their bad practice..!! headbang

But the simple facts are:-

1: We all have tough jobs at times.

2: We all got to feed clothe & house ourselves (& families where applicable)

3: A good spark don't need to cut corners on any aspects of their work, installation or paperwork.

4: A good business man costs and prices up work appropriate for all legal requirements associated with the work and builds in costs for the typical unforeseen problems.

5: In any industry employee's who do not like what they are doing generally do a worse job than those who enjoy what they are doing and take pride in their work.

By your own admission you don't really want to be in the trade..

So why bother issuing a cert or signing off work at all..

Just do your jobs take the cash & leave..

Stuff the "Namby Pamby State" paperwork if thats how you feel..

BUT...

If you are signing a certificate make sure you meet the requirements of the declaration you are signing...

The certs I use are worded as per the BS7671 model forms..

e.g. Page 137 On Site Guide..

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation....etc etc...

If thats the box you are signing, I fail to see how any educated intelligent person cannot understand the meaning of the declaration!

:| :C

p.s. I feel strongly that I can drive safely at 90MPH on the motorway and 70MPH on urban school areas..

Don't think, however strongly my opinions, I should be allowed special dispensation for my personal method of driving if or when confronted with the relevant laws.

 

[scrag]

I can assure you that I do not cut corners. The job in question will have input and supervision by me. I work to a high standard and within standards. You are correct that it is interesting how a post develops. The majority of questions on here can get away from the actual query in the first place. One of the reasons that we use this forum is because we welcome others views or interpretation of the regs. Constructive or not. If in doubt, don't. Or if in doubt, ask

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I can assure you that I do not cut corners. The job in question will have input and supervision by me. I work to a high standard and within standards.

I would be interested to know what certificates you are using...

I haven't seen any where the declaration say..

"This work has been done to high standards, by somebody other than me but with my supervision..."

As I said earlier the ones I use are based on the BS7671 model forms..

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation....etc etc...

Can you post a copy of the certificate declaration you sign please?

 

[NozSpark]

My personal stance on this is that I do not issue EICs or notify jobs for 3rd parties,,

what I will offer is a PIR (and that's it... I do explain the differences), some people take me up on it and others find someone else.... good luck to them

Now if a (switched on) householder wants to help me (supervised only) then that is a different matter

 

[scrag]

Does building control design and construct. No they don't. But what they will do is inspect all wiring at 1st fix stage. Inspect at 2nd fix and look at certificates and then and only then sign it off and issue a building compliance certificate. A QS at a large company would normally be the chief tester, SUPERVISOR or somebody in management. It will not be the general sparky or sparks mate. It WILL be the QS that oversees everything do the final paperwork and notify BC. You can bet your bottom dollar that he would probably not have designed and install/constructed it. I fail to see what the problem is. I will be involved with the project albeit not on site doing the complete install. A larger company would not issue a 3 part EIC would they. But they should and this is one of the issues I was crbvcurbvubruvbruvbfruit to raise. As far as standards go I can assure everyone on this forum I do not certificate anyones work UNLESS I am involved in some part at all stages.

 

[NozSpark]

Scrag,

you are muddying your own issue...

the LABC only sign off for building regs compliance, not compliance with BS7671

 

[springcrocus]

Scrag,you are muddying your own issue...

the LABC only sign off for building regs compliance, not compliance with BS7671

Noz, please don't read this that I, in any way, agree with Mr Scrag but it is unfortunate that the ONLY bit of paper that some people are interested in is the compliance certificate. This is what allows them to sell their house at a future date. Our own bit of paper, the EIC or MW, seems to carry little weight in the overall scheme of things.