Your thoughts ladies & gentlemen please

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Does building control design and construct. No they don't. But what they will do is inspect all wiring at 1st fix stage. Inspect at 2nd fix and look at certificates and then and only then sign it off and issue a building compliance certificate. A QS at a large company would normally be the chief tester, SUPERVISOR or somebody in management. It will not be the general sparky or sparks mate. It WILL be the QS that oversees everything do the final paperwork and notify BC. You can bet your bottom dollar that he would probably not have designed and install/constructed it. I fail to see what the problem is. I will be involved with the project albeit not on site doing the complete install. A larger company would not issue a 3 part EIC would they. But they should and this is one of the issues I was crbvcurbvubruvbruvbfruit to raise. As far as standards go I can assure everyone on this forum I do not certificate anyones work UNLESS I am involved in some part at all stages.

Making up your own rules is IRRELEVANT

e.g. I could say "I fail to see what the problem is with me speeding"

because...

If Police and Ambulance drivers can drive in excess of 70MPH safely...

And formula 1 drivers can drive at 100+MPH safely

and the Stig can take a reasonably priced car at a speed in excess of the national speed limits..

I don't see you its wrong for me to exceed the STATUTORY legal speed limits....

But then again ALL of the solicitors I have questioned about this tend to think my case it NOT water tight!!!!!

Maybe you could back me up on this one?

then again..

most probably not because.

1/ I am not the Police!

2/ I am not an F1 driver!

3/ i am not the Stig on a test track!

and back to your point

YOU ARE NOT THE LABC!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go back read Approved document P

it is quite clear and easy to follow for all various parties as to their procedures and obligations..

including

a) DIY homeowner

B) Qualified spark not approved to self certify

c) Qualified spark approved to self certify

d) LABC

Just to add

please answer post #77 or are you trying to ignore it?

WHAT DO THE CERTIFICATES YOU SIGN ACTUALLY SAY?

 

[spinlondon]

Scrag, your first post, stated that you would oversee the work and further indicated that you would advise if neccasary.

To my mind a perfectly acceptable manner in which to use the 3 part EICs. Much preferable to some 'QS' bod sitting in an office signing off paperwork for employees without ever having had sight of the installation.

However, your second post appeared to indicate that you would not in fact oversee the work, and that you would just sign it off based soley on your belief that the guy knows what he's doing.

To my mind, this would be setting yourself up for a fall.

As far as I'm concerned I see nothing wrong in you signing off the testing on a long form EIC where the other guy signs off for design and construction, as long as you have supervised or inspected during the installation work. There may well be legal ramifications that I'm not aware of, there may well be problems with you scheme providor, or with the LABCs.

However I believe you shouldn't have any problems as long as you are open and above board with what you are doing.

 

[ianmacd]

Does building control design and construct. No they don't. But what they will do is inspect all wiring at 1st fix stage. Inspect at 2nd fix and look at certificates and then and only then sign it off and issue a building compliance certificate. A QS at a large company would normally be the chief tester, SUPERVISOR or somebody in management. It will not be the general sparky or sparks mate. It WILL be the QS that oversees everything do the final paperwork and notify BC. You can bet your bottom dollar that he would probably not have designed and install/constructed it. I fail to see what the problem is. I will be involved with the project albeit not on site doing the complete install. A larger company would not issue a 3 part EIC would they. But they should and this is one of the issues I was crbvcurbvubruvbruvbfruit to raise. As far as standards go I can assure everyone on this forum I do not certificate anyones work UNLESS I am involved in some part at all stages.

You clearly understand that your example is all within the same enterprise and you must understand that what you are doing is completely different. You should not be certifying ANYONES work for compliance that is not part of your enterprise as defined with your scam. For your sake, I hope your scam does not read this and take action against you.

 

[kme]

Scrag, your first post, stated that you would oversee the work and further indicated that you would advise if neccasary.
To my mind a perfectly acceptable manner in which to use the 3 part EICs. Much preferable to some 'QS' bod sitting in an office signing off paperwork for employees without ever having had sight of the installation.
However, your second post appeared to indicate that you would not in fact oversee the work, and that you would just sign it off based soley on your belief that the guy knows what he's doing.
To my mind, this would be setting yourself up for a fall.
As far as I'm concerned I see nothing wrong in you signing off the testing on a long form EIC where the other guy signs off for design and construction, as long as you have supervised or inspected during the installation work. There may well be legal ramifications that I'm not aware of, there may well be problems with you scheme providor, or with the LABCs.
However I believe you shouldn't have any problems as long as you are open and above board with what you are doing.

I`d agree with that; it may or may not be 100% within the scheme`s rules, but it IS far showing an understanding of the system at large.

For example, an ex-work colleague builds a house for his son, who is an electrical engineer. Father & son come to see me, with 4 pages of circuit design info - the son wants to construct, and has been told by LABC to find a "part p electrician" (I hate that phrase) to do the inspect / test & notify.

I am not signing for design, because I didn`t.

Nor am I signing for construction, `cos I didn`t do that bit, either.

But I CAN do the I&T, with certain conditions and limitations, which were spelled out in the "extent" & "limitations" boxes. Then I notified to LABC. Job done.

I reiterate: I believe this complies with the intentof the legislation, if not the rules as they stand; and I`d be prepared to argue my position at any level.

KME

 

[safedepth]

Scrag,

We all know that one purpose of this forum is to raise issues for discussion, and this thread has certainly done that! It is not however a place to find a definitive answer to all questions. This is one of those questions.

In your opening post you posed a question with some supporting notes and asked, "Is this acceptable?"

In a later post you referred to an argument you had had with your NIC assessor regarding use of there own EIC forms. From that I would assume you are or have been a member of that organisation. You will therefore be aware of their technical helpline. Being so long in the business means you are also aware of the IET, they also have helplines. Your local Building Control office will have a phone number and are charged with providing advice when sought, in all matters relating to building works.

Might I respectfully advise that rather than seek justification for your actions on here and argue the point when some disagree, you seek them at one of the above.

Whether you are right or wrong is not all that counts here. You asked for someone to confirm your thoughts, since that hasn't come without many caveats you have sought to justify your actions to the forum when it isn't the forum which may take you to court.

If for example the consensus on here was in your favour, but we were all wrong, you would still be wrong! It is not our favour you require, it is that of the authorities.

PS. This doesn't preclude the asking of questions, but when the answer runs to 6 pages and 85 opinions maybe clarification needs to be sought from a higher authority.

Maybe then we will all find out the correct course of action.