bondings and minor works

[Andy™]

sometimes more

 

[niceguy]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Lurch]

[quote name='Andy

 

[kme]

This is turning into an interesting discussion - IF it can stay civil. So many recent threads have gone bitchy, and been closed / removed. It would be unfortunate if this were to continue......

As regards the question itself....If there is a direct like-for-like swap, and the main bonds aren`t in place, I`d STRONGLY suggest they were done. There is a laminated sheet provided FOC by NIC, detailing the necessity for bonding.

IF they refused - I may, in all honesty, do the work. It would depend on so many factors; not least of which is the earthing system.

KME

 

[Apache]

This is turning into an interesting discussion - IF it can stay civil. So many recent threads have gone bitchy, and been closed / removed. It would be unfortunate if this were to continue......As regards the question itself....If there is a direct like-for-like swap, and the main bonds aren`t in place, I`d STRONGLY suggest they were done. There is a laminated sheet provided FOC by NIC, detailing the necessity for bonding.

IF they refused - I may, in all honesty, do the work. It would depend on so many factors; not least of which is the earthing system.

KME

Basically what I said in the very first reply

 

[SteveH37]

Think i'd leave them to let "grandad" put it up, soon as you touch the installation your responsible don't forget.

 

[spinlondon]

As far as I'm aware, you are required to ascertain that the earthing & bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate.

To my mind, that means that the Zs of the circuit should be low enough to allow any CPD to operate within the parameters set out by BS7671.

If there is no CPC on the lighting, then either a CPC should be installed, or the use of RCD protection and class II equipment.

If RCD protection and class II equipment is chosen, then this should be noted as a departure on the MWC.

 

[ianmacd]

If RCD protection and class II equipment is chosen, then this should be noted as a departure on the MWC.

And a label placed on (or near) CU stating that the specific circuit number has no CPC.

 

[gselectrical]

So, approx

 

[ianmacd]

Ill have to use your donkey as someone else on here has my horse. :^O

The Don's boys took it as their local stable had run out. I'm sure you will get it back, well most of it.

 

[kme]

The Don's boys took it as their local stable had run out. I'm sure you will get it back, well most of it.

Is that a close variation on the "headless horseman"????? :^O

We`re not really into people riding horses, shooting guns or hiding in wigwams - Don & the boys usually oust `emROTFWLROTFWLROTFWLROTFWL

 

[Lurch]

Could you not run a cpc directly from the DB to the class 1 light fitting?

I don;t think you could, if it's not specifically disallowed in the BRB then it is certainly against good practice guides. Reason being random CPC's laid in separately could easily be disturbed and disconnected without touching any other cables so the lack of an earth could go unnoticed. I think if you were going to do that extent I would run a 6241Y at least so it would cause a noticeable fault to show up as well.

 

[gselectrical]

I don;t think you could, if it's not specifically disallowed in the BRB then it is certainly against good practice guides. Reason being random CPC's laid in separately could easily be disturbed and disconnected without touching any other cables so the lack of an earth could go unnoticed. I think if you were going to do that extent I would run a 6241Y at least so it would cause a noticeable fault to show up as well.

Good point. J

 

[niceguy]

soon as you touch the installation your responsible don't forget.

No you are not.

An accessory is being changed, not the circuit.

Yes, a cpc must be available for class I fittings, and if there was not one present, i would not do the job if the client refused to have it sorted.

If it is a class II accessory then no prob.

As has been pointed out, it would not have been left in a worse state than before.

 

[Bez]

I've been following this thread with interest as I have to change old brittle pendants in an old property on Friday. I'm pretty sure the bonding will not be up to spec but can't find any definitive guidance. The way I read it is, if the circuit is not being altered or renewed, then no legal requirement to upgrade bonding, but I could be wrong.

 

[Andy™]

I've been following this thread with interest as I have to change old brittle pendants in an old property on Friday. I'm pretty sure the bonding will not be up to spec but can't find any definitive guidance. The way I read it is, if the circuit is not being altered or renewed, then no legal requirement to upgrade bonding, but I could be wrong.

i normally work it on why its being changed - if its broken & needs replaced, replace it. if they want it changed because they dont like the existing, then it should be done to 17th

 

[paul b b]

[quote name='Andy

 

[tom1]

andy has a good point, but i thought like for like then a straight swap is ok, if your not happy touching a circuit as you belive its unsafe then dont and let some one els do it,

i would not criticise anyone for doing either, i have seen threads on here about swaping showers like for like and insisting on rcd for obviouse reasons.

at a job i was asked to swap a class I for another class I, there was no cpc to that fitting so i said i would not do it unless the new light was a class II, i came back the next day and he had put it up himself. on the one hand somethings goes wrong its nothing to do with me on the other if i had swaped like for like i would have fitted it properly, may be he did or may by he could have made a right mess in there

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Evening chaps,no doubt all been said before but best to confirm!

if a customer wants a light fitting changed and there are no bondings can the job still be carried out wit a note on the cert? also, the same for an rcd?

second q is, if the lighting circuit has no cpc and they want a class 1 fitting (class 1 is metal right?) can i take a cpc from a socket? or is this a nono?

thanks chaps

paul

Evening Paul b b....

ok sorry I am a bit late onto this one..Blushing

but been busy!

Bottom line is

Is the work in your considered opinion "An addition, Alteration, Temporary or permanent"

If YES then Bonding MUST be done a-la reg 131.8 page 16.

If NO the use your own considered judgment based on your opinion of the installation circumstances!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

No you are not.An accessory is being changed, not the circuit.

Yes, a cpc must be available for class I fittings, and if there was not one present, i would not do the job if the client refused to have it sorted.

If it is a class II accessory then no prob.

As has been pointed out, it would not have been left in a worse state than before.

Hmmm?

debatable....

Safer or worse then before...

this in IMHO includes a wider scope view than JUST the electrical safety tests..

e.g

consider two scenarios..

a) Customers opinion following work.. well a proper electrician came and did it so it must be right and safe!

and

B) customers opinion... well a proper electrician refused to do it and said there were some safety issues needing to be addressed.

which is the Safest? Risk assessment consideration need to be applied NOT just test meter!

discuss?