Can a non time served (short course) person call themselves an Electrician

[steptoe]

I dont need evidence to prove you are competent,

in actual fact it is the contrary.

EDIT, Im not bothered about the personal insults that have been sent to me via negative reputation,

water off a ducks back, even the name calling,

maybe it shows someone is feeling out of their depth.

BTW, safedepth, I not pointing at you with this, you are man enough to deal with it up front[as it were], Im sure.

 

[safedepth]

I dont need evidence to prove you are competent,in actual fact it is the contrary.

EDIT, Im not bothered about the personal insults that have been sent to me via negative reputation,

water off a ducks back, even the name calling,

maybe it shows someone is feeling out of their depth.

BTW, safedepth, I not pointing at you with this, you are man enough to deal with it up front[as it were], Im sure.

On that note I'm off to bed. Goodnight all.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Just for the record, that elusive measure of knowledge and experience makes no mention of needing to be time served apprenticeship trained. So until a regulation, guide or booklet clearly defines exactly what an electrician is or has to have achieved, then I suspect this discussion will go on for ever. The concept that a majority of the public expect to get a timeserved tradesman, is unfortunately not true, vast numbers of the public positively avoid formally trained tradesperson in favour of the friend at the pub for a cheaper job.

Technical knowledge or experience237 The scope of

 

[steptoe]

Just for the record, that elusive measure of knowledge and experience makes no mention of needing to be time served apprenticeship trained. So until a regulation, guide or booklet clearly defines exactly what an electrician is or has to have achieved, then I suspect this discussion will go on for ever. The concept that a majority of the public expect to get a timeserved tradesman, is unfortunately not true, vast numbers of the public positively avoid formally trained tradesperson in favour of the friend at the pub for a cheaper job.Whatever peoples personal opinions are, there is absolutely no excuse for not respecting other members whilst composing your posts and controlling the use of language and personal insults. Or if you are unable to respect other members then please respect Admin's terms and conditions and acceptable use of the forum. Some of the posts on this thread have been a little near the knuckle, that applies to EVERYONE, including those who have been here almost since it commenced.

Doc H.

I wholeheartedly agree with that Doc, but in that instance the customer is wholly aware of the [possibly] substandard work they may receive, and are completely aware of the lack of training or experience they are receiving, but said person is not advertising as an electrician, merely as possibly a general handyman, or, simply Bob from the pub that can wire a light.

 

[the doctor]

Hi All,

Crikey, some read this! And now for my twopeneth...

Me I served a full indenture, got me A and B to become 'approved'

I later did my 2400 and am now a 'technician'

I have also taught for 10 years now and been writing a little. I have met a lot of people on my travels and must say the thread is hard to solve. All i am going to say is what I always say in class...

Electrician is not defined anywhere and worse is a very 'broad church'

I believe the only credible way out is for all men to be forced to hold a JIB card and make it the JIB's call on the grading. Perhaps there should be a 'domestic installer' grade.

Me? My JIB card runs out in spring and I too am going down to labourer as I dont hold an NVQ3:yellow card

I have made enquiries to fix this... I have to sign on as an adult apprentice. I am taking the easy way out and moving to Eire in August. I have contacted the Irish RECI outfit and sent copies of my expiring quals.... they say they are more than happy with me! Just need a job now...

Au revoir then:C

 

[steptoe]

Hi All,Crikey, some read this! And now for my twopeneth...

Me I served a full indenture, got me A and B to become 'approved'

I later did my 2400 and am now a 'technician'

I have also taught for 10 years now and been writing a little. I have met a lot of people on my travels and must say the thread is hard to solve. All i am going to say is what I always say in class...

Electrician is not defined anywhere and worse is a very 'broad church'

I believe the only credible way out is for all men to be forced to hold a JIB card and make it the JIB's call on the grading. Perhaps there should be a 'domestic installer' grade.

Me? My JIB card runs out in spring and I too am going down to labourer as I dont hold an NVQ3:yellow card

I have made enquiries to fix this... I have to sign on as an adult apprentice. I am taking the easy way out and moving to Eire in August. I have contacted the Irish RECI outfit and sent copies of my expiring quals.... they say they are more than happy with me! Just need a job now...

Au revoir then:C

doc, JIB [spit] will give you a grading if you can provide 10years evidence, without an NVQ3.

so basically they are saying without an NVQ3 (how long does that take?), you have to show 10 years competence before they will grade you as an electrician,

as much as I dont like them much, maybe they have got that bit right.

 

[ProDave]

I have made enquiries to fix this... I have to sign on as an adult apprentice. I am taking the easy way out and moving to Eire in August. I have contacted the Irish RECI outfit and sent copies of my expiring quals.... they say they are more than happy with me! Just need a job now...

Au revoir then:C

But who says you NEED to "fix" this.

You did an apprenticeship, you are qualified, so why don't you just continue? Who is saying you can't, forcing you over the Irish Sea?

 

[Sidewinder]

Thing is the JIB only covers a small area of the "trade" really!

 

[Steve3948]

I wonder what the % is though, you say small but it could be 50%

 

[Sidewinder]

I mean small as far as scope of work goes.

Domestic is domestic, if you get what I mean.

It probably covers a high %age of the operatives, & possibly the workload.

However, I do not feel it "really" covers a large area of the technical scope.

 

[Steve3948]

I mean small as far as scope of work goes.Domestic is domestic, if you get what I mean.

It probably covers a high %age of the operatives, & possibly the workload.

However, I do not feel it "really" covers a large area of the technical scope.

I see, I misunderstood sorry. :Salute

 

[NozSpark]

Hi All,Crikey, some read this! And now for my twopeneth...

Me I served a full indenture, got me A and B to become 'approved'

I later did my 2400 and am now a 'technician'

I have also taught for 10 years now and been writing a little. I have met a lot of people on my travels and must say the thread is hard to solve. All i am going to say is what I always say in class...

Electrician is not defined anywhere and worse is a very 'broad church'

I believe the only credible way out is for all men to be forced to hold a JIB card and make it the JIB's call on the grading. Perhaps there should be a 'domestic installer' grade.

Me? My JIB card runs out in spring and I too am going down to labourer as I dont hold an NVQ3:yellow card

I have made enquiries to fix this... I have to sign on as an adult apprentice. I am taking the easy way out and moving to Eire in August. I have contacted the Irish RECI outfit and sent copies of my expiring quals.... they say they are more than happy with me! Just need a job now...

Au revoir then:C

Alan,

Where abouts are you going over there?

Like I have said before, Ireland is a beautiful country with great people and a nice laid back way of life,,,,, but there aren't any jobs unfortunately:O

My inlaws often say to us to go over there to live if it gets too bad over here,, but there's nothing over there either

 

[steptoe]

^^^^

@NOZ and the DOCTOR

I agree, as bad as it is here, it is a lot, LOT worse over there just now,

in fact to the point of they are just behind needing the same help as Greece etc, they are the I in PIGS,!

 

[MKS]

Personally speaking and from many English sparks now in Adelaide, the TRA are not someone you can fool, getting your qualifications recognised for ATRC is notoriously difficult. The trade test can be taken by most, it won't give you a grade A or unrestricted license, but it may give you restricted to allow you to work as a mate! Speaking for myself, the 2381 and 2391 will not get you full trade license! To get ATRC requires either approved apprenticeship or similar with 4 to 7 years experience respectively! This experience has to be proven through photos, statutory declarations, references in related fields of work and differing wiring systems etc! My ATRC was over 100 pages but missing two months experience which I had to make up as a trade assistant before TRA would recognise me! I can assure you that no 5 week course will even get a look in with the TRA and domestic is very poorly looked upon in Australia as most of the big companies are commercial and industrial such as Neilsons, Boffas, Lynde et

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i will rip up my Australian passport and never return if I thought any Tom or Dick could get skilled status without the necessary status! I will bet my bottom dollar that TRA will not even issue anything remotely like c license unless you have the required skill! As to the original thread. Personally, you would have to live in woop woop to believe you are an electrician after five weeks! My only claim is holding both JIB and South Australia unrestricted license! I think domestic installers have a place but calling themselves electricians, should not be one of them! Referring to domestic installer courses, not those on domestic schemes before any doo doo hits the fan!!! Just saying, now back to vodka!!!

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not a dig just an opinion!

 

[steptoe]

I'm sorry Steps, but you canAn old mate of mine who worked in a gavl mill did his 2391 and then his 2381, I gave him some work for a while and he did the Australia trade test.... He is now working as an electrician over there

in what capacity NOZ, and what other tests did he have to do?

and how long did it take him?

I'll bet he didnt enter OZ as an electrician.

EDIT : more info in the post above.

 

[NozSpark]

Couldn't tell you to be honest because he really f'd me off a few months before he went.

Put it this way, the work he did for me paid for his trade tests, visa's etc. on his first application he was a few points short, but a few months later he had enough for some reason. I gave him a reference which included a big list of what tools he was competent with:shakehead

 

[revjames]

I had to go into NZ as a mate! only after I had proved my self and done a practical assessement and regs course was I given reg'd electrician status!

 

[MKS]

The trade test is similar to wiring regulations here, read the book, fill it in, take the test at Peer, jobs a good un...However, office of business and consumer affairs will not offer anything remotely that looks like an electrical license unless you have the correct papers from the TRA, namely in this case the ATRC! You have three options, get your ATRC and do test, get same but with question and answer over the phone, related questions include motor testing, calculations, three phase, Dol starters and few others etc, or they decline but recommend you take TAFE course for few years! No chance you would pass Vettases with just minimal qualifications (this is skill visa part) includes similar practical and theory like AM2 and theory similar to 2360 etc After Vets, which will allow you the required visa to travel (takes over 18 or so months) you still have to do ATRC and even with VETs does not give you ATRC automatically,!!! Process is pain in the bottom!!

 

[steptoe]

I had to go into NZ as a mate! only after I had proved my self and done a practical assessement and regs course was I given reg'd electrician status!

I still had to work for a year under supervision........

and will most likely have to do again if I go back.

 

[MKS]

Like I said, getting the visa, which he seems he did through VET will not get you ATRC, that is a whole different ball game with the TRA!!!

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People are deluded if they think just because they have passed their Vet, they will auto get ATRC, just does not happen!!! I was lucky as my wife is Australian so did not have to go through Vet, straight to ATRC!!! I know a few that have tried with DI course but refused by TRA as course not recognised!!!