Caravan Park Query

[Red Squirrel]

Hello Everyone,

Been stalking around on this forum for a while and generally everywhere to find information which can help me with a query I have regarding a caravan park power supply. Disclaimer I am not an electrician! Merely a business owner trying their hardest to understand the setup so I can work with an electrical contractor and not be completely confused!!

There seems to be a wide variety of talk on diversity with caravan parks and how you calculate the adequate supply for the size of a particular park.

The park I have in question has currently 40 pitches these are static caravans which remain on site all year round, all with the following setup:

• Split phase supply
  
• 100amp on each phase
  
• I believe we have 20 on one phase and 20 on the other
  
• Outside each pitch has there own box with a 16amp fuse and 0.03A RCD
  

Without going any further in my simple mind if each caravan pulled maximum load at 16amp the supply is very much under rated? 40 x 16 = 640amps? Is it as simple as this? 

Sorry my knowledge is very basic however I very much want to understand the setup before proceeding any further with an electrical contractor and I hoped you helpful folks could help me out some!

Chees

 

[Murdoch]

2 points

 1. there are very specific electrical requirements in the regs for static caravans and temporary pitches

 2. speak to local contractors and get written quotes of them and see how they compare

 regarding the load, application of diversity is important but it sounds like your incoming supply might need upgrading

 

[Red Squirrel]

2 points

 1. there are very specific electrical requirements in the regs for static caravans and temporary pitches

 2. speak to local contractors and get written quotes of them and see how they compare

 regarding the load, application of diversity is important but it sounds like your incoming supply might need upgrading

Thanks @Murdoch

I am aware there will be regs etc that have to be complied to however I just wanted to get a better understanding of our setup and determine if my thinking is correct.

Can you confirm that my basic understanding of the current demand is correct? Before any diversity of course.

I hate asking for someone to quote a job and know nothing about what I am talking about! Thats just my nature I guess!

 

[Geoff1946]

All I would say, as a caravanner, is that a modern tourer is more than capable of fully loading a 16 amp supply. Indeed it is necessary to have some understanding of appliance demand to avoid on-board problems.

 

[boltonsparky]

Disclaimer, I know very little of caravans. What kind of electrical requirement do statics have? I'm assuming they're on gas bottle hobs, ovens and heating. Appliances are fridge, TV, toaster and kettle, some LED lighting. If my assumptions are correct they'll probably sit at a few amps for most of the day/night with the occasional increase in load for brewing up/making the jam and toast.

Even with each caravan sat at a few amps, say 5, you're at the maximum for your supply, and then with the extra of kettles etc.

How long has it been on this set up, have you had overload problems, tripping for example, are there signs of thermal damage etc?

Diversity and maximum demand is a difficult thing to calculate, there are massive variables, it can vary hugely from one installation to another, two identical installations can have a widely different maximum demand. A power logger would be useful to monitor what the actual demand is and is a far more accurate measure than trying to calculate diversity which is always a bit of a stab in the dark.

 

[Red Squirrel]

@boltonsparky Thanks. Given you know very little of caravans you have got a good grasp of the electrical requirements of them. As you say the amps which will actually be drawn from each caravan is probably a lot less than 16amp, although I do keep hearing the impact the dreaded kettles have on load which can 'spike' the power for a duration which may put them over the 16amps.

This has been on this setup for many years - with tripping occurring very occasionally. We rarely have the park at full capacity, I would say 30% average, but there is certainly busier times with no issues which is confusing. Although as you say its a difficult thing to say for sure. Its not impossible 40 caravans could be occupied at one time, this should certainly cause issues by the looks of it.

It has been suggested to me that we may require a 3 phase supply. Although this still confuses me slightly as from what I can gather this would be 100amps on three phases instead of 2 - does this only increase our load by 100amps with the extra phase to 300amps? Or is there more too it with a 3 phase supply

Theoretically if we were to have a 3 phase supply how many pitches could we potentially serve, with lets say an average of 10amp load on each.... 100amps x 3 = 300amps / 10 = 30 caravans?

Thanks for everyone's help it giving me some encouragement!

 

[Red Squirrel]

Any help at all on this? Sorry I have hit a roadblock, I just want to understand the subject better before getting a contractor involved with the possibility of getting fleeced
 

 

[Sharpend]

Here’s what I think, 

as it depends on several variables, id suggest that rather you trying to understand it to not get fleeced, you’d be better to have a couple of quotes and then ask questions based on said quote proposals. This way we can give suggestions based on something that’s been assessed? 
Either way you don’t get fleeced.  

 

[Red Squirrel]

Thanks for your honest reply, appreciate that..

Lets say in theory we have the following information at hand:

40 pitches with 16amp supplies

A split phase supply (100 amp per phase) split 20/20 between the pitches

45kVa Supply from the transformer

Question: How under rated is this setup based on FULL demand from each pitch? 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Side thought..... that you may also want to add into your equations...

Have you got any..  or considered adding any..  capacity for the "future-boom" in electric vehicles?

If you are doing any major changes it may be worthwhile factoring in some EV charging points..?

:coffee  

 

[boltonsparky]

Also is there an office/workshop/toilet block that needs to be fed from the supply.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Side thought..... that you may also want to add into your equations...

Have you got any..  or considered adding any..  capacity for the "future-boom" in electric vehicles?

If you are doing any major changes it may be worthwhile factoring in some EV charging points..?

:coffee  

 EV charging points isn’t a bad idea to be honest, it’s the way things are going however it will dramatically increase the load I would imagine!

Also is there an office/workshop/toilet block that needs to be fed from the supply.

No these units are all self contained, we have no need for a toilet block. There is an office but the usage is very limited (light, pc)

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

 EV charging points isn’t a bad idea to be honest, it’s the way things are going however it will dramatically increase the load I would imagine!

I would guess it will have significant impact on your total load..

But also worth checking out if there is any government assistance or funding available?

As they are the ones pushing everyone to go for EV's

Over the coming years it could become a significant asset for both you and your customers.

Guinness

 

[Sharpend]

Careful though as I read only the other day that the government is cutting the grants available for those wishing to purchase an EV so it may be the beginning of the end for the EV, maybe they know something we don’t? 

 

[UNG]

Side thought..... that you may also want to add into your equations...

Have you got any..  or considered adding any..  capacity for the "future-boom" in electric vehicles?

If you are doing any major changes it may be worthwhile factoring in some EV charging points..?

:coffee  

EV's currently are useless as towing vehicles

 

[Sharpend]

EV's currently are useless as towing vehicles

Is that because of battery drain? 
id have thought the torque they have they’d have been pretty useful. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

EV's currently are useless as towing vehicles

But not everyone using a caravan park is towing..

(And the OP says this is a site with mainly Statics. )

We regularly take our touring van to a site that has a mix of Touring, Tent, Campervan etc..

and this site has had a couple of EV charge points for a few years now..

Often (like us), other family members come and meet up at the caravan..

so its 1x towing vehicle plus 2x non towing vehicles at our pitch...

So I don't think its uncommon to have a 4x4 doing the towing..

and one, (or more), smaller second vehicles, possibly EV's, doing the trip to the local tourist attractions..

Guinness   

 

[UNG]

Is that because of battery drain? 
id have thought the torque they have they’d have been pretty useful. 

There are not that many EV's to which a towbar can be fitted and of those you can fit towbars to the maximum towing weight is between 750 - 900KG add to that the battery drain and you are not traveling very far on one charge

 

[Sharpend]

This can’t be right! The politicians have told us that EV’s are the future. 
either they don’t want us to holiday on this country or the caravan makers are slyly building electric drives into the chassis of the caravans? Or maybe the chassis of the caravans will be a bed of batteries to provide supplementary power to the car???

this EV thing is far too complex for my little brain! 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I remember seeing a youtube of some American bods trying out towing with a Tesla..

Part of their results compared a journey without a trailer which consumed 68miles worth of range and 21% of battery..

But same car with the trailer, same route, consumed 190miles worth of range and 59% of battery..

You certainly don't get that sort of level of loss of range etc.. with a Diesel + trailer!

If you want something to watch for 40mins while supping a beer or two....  Guinness   Guinness