Caravan Site Electrics

[Sidewinder]

Deke,

You would be moving into designing and building a ready built control or distribution panel, that comes under different standards and requires CE marking, in its own right, it gets stupid!

IF you used an IP65 DB mounted on a pole, and put some IP65 flexible conduit down to an IP65 socket then that would be different.

Yes you can get IP65 DB's Schneider do them for example.

It just gets silly if you build assemblies, think "site built assemblies" in BS7671, check that out for an idea.

 

[Evans Electric]

Oh jeez... why a built enclosure?

They normally have an ip box mounted on a galv post thats been knocked in (and thats it)

But,,, "5 on this wall" is different to 5 on a single enclosure. .. you could easily do 2x3 outlet boxes

DP RCBOs are a great idea BTW no matter if its TT or TNS

The point of a built enclosure is that they let horses in the paddock ...owner says they would damage an electrical panel .

Bare in mind where I live theres a scarcity of paddocks, 'orses & caravan parks.... so along with marinas , fairgrounds and agrculture  I don't do a lot in that field .

(  Just rethinking on that statement ....nearest farm and also stables are just 3 miles away ....nice sausage , eggs & fresh veg)

Deke,

You would be moving into designing and building a ready built control or distribution panel, that comes under different standards and requires CE marking, in its own right, it gets stupid!

IF you used an IP65 DB mounted on a pole, and put some IP65 flexible conduit down to an IP65 socket then that would be different.

Yes you can get IP65 DB's Schneider do them for example.

It just gets silly if you build assemblies, think "site built assemblies" in BS7671, check that out for an idea.

Ah   I  see where you're coming from now ...as in "Site built assemblies"  I hadn't looked at it that way . Again your expertise is invaluable . 

 

[Sidewinder]

There are ways and means, how urgent is this?

I have been chasing walls all day, think back to my earlier discussions that you were involved in with regard to this, and, I think you may be able to judge how I feel now!

I've only done two chases and I'm in serious agony!

Oh, and I did even use a wall chaser!

Two actually as the first burned out after doing less than 2m of chase.

Not a happy bunny, but, as I bought it cheap from a screw s and fix ings supplier who are open on BH Sundays got a new one today to replace it.

Got 4 more to do tomorrow, gawd knows if I will be fit to work next week.

It's the vibration that does me in, including that from the hammer and chisel as well as from the SDS & the chaser.

My hands go numb after a few minutes, to such an extent, I could not hold on to the bolster chisel and it just fell from my hand and smashed the tiles on the fire surround.

As far as I knew I was holding it tightly!

A terrible affliction, and another reason I don't (can't) do domestic stuff!!!

 

[Evans Electric]

Its not urgent at the moment ,  thanks for a ways & means offer ,  we'll be installing a supply to their shop first , as with most things , its a matter of ..get some cash in ...do this bit ...get some more cash in ..do the next bit .   It will depend on the price I quote , we just upgraded elects in their blacksmiths shop .. fruit& veg shop next ...then caravans I guess .  I'd like to do it ..a first for me ... although its basically Commando plugs ...RCDs.. &. Earth  Rodneys .

The Rolec things I looked at online will be no good  because of the horses .

Sidey  , if using that type of equipment has that effect on you ...I suggest ..with respect...that you desist forthwith ...you could cause long lasting damage .  Get a builder's labourer in ...About £80/day up here .      On the face of it , domestic sounds easy peasey with some of the stuff I've done in the past but ... constant kneeling is a killer , chasing walls & boxes in is hard dusty work , and lofts are now a nightmare ...with a foot deep of crap you don't want to be breathing in all day.  

 

[batty]

I sympathise Sidey I mostly do domestic and a little bit of commercial so know how it takes toll on your body. Installing a shower circuit yesterday house opposite to me so same build, trying to drill through joists first joist broke a brand new auger bit so didn't start well. Later on another auger bit got stuck in a wide joist ended up snapping screw that holds chuck on in my angle drill  and wrenched my wrist badly was in agony yesterday evening.

   People think domestic is easy but it tests you though.

 

[Sidewinder]

The 16kA rating is only to do with using 6kA rated breakers on a DB in a domestic where the supply is protected by a BS88 (now) fuse and the fault current is in excess of 6kA.

Then the DB required type approval to meet what was the annexe ZA of what was BS EN 60439.

Now this has changed, however, I am heading toward "site built assemblies" for what Deke is considering.

BS EN 60439 has now been superseded by BS EN 61439 IIRC, but, this is still on my reading list for updates!

 

[cornish terrorist]

I used to do a lot of hook up points down here in Cornwall, the importance is not to connect PME to the socket outlet terminal but correctly you should not distribute PME TNCS around the site so you may have to install a time delay RCD/MCCB at the source if you have TNS you will comply we have normally fitted a DB per field in an 1P enclosure as central as you can get it then install a radial to each outlet pitch ,SES, Rolec, Hawkins, Lewden make a two outlet box with an individual RCBO to each socket we normally protect the socket with a 20A or 32A mcb supplying two pitches.

For the purposes of diversity we calculate 10A per caravan socket for assumed load.

There is another option to consider if you can terminate large cables is a ring main supplied by maybe 63/80A Hrc we have done these before in 16mm or 25mm and wired around the field in a ring the disadvantage is having two large cables in the outlet and if someone reverses into the socket or pillar the supply for the whole field will be exposed to the elements and you will have to isolate all the pitches.

I also find Shneider single phase boards good to accept lots of large swa in to the bottom .

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks Terrorist ...I was just thinking in terms of 10A per van  when I opened your post .

 

[NozSpark]

A lot of pitches only have 6A mcbs

 

[Sidewinder]

Personally I would never allow more than 10 or 16A per pitch and would protect each pitch with its own MCB & RCD if at all possible.

Deke, you could put ready made assemblies into another enclosure remember and it would not be site built.

How about a wooden or sheet steel cover over the DB & sockets, or even a polymer box with a hinged lid & the bottom cut out, with some over centre clips to hold the lid closed?

 

[Evans Electric]

That sounds good to me  Sidey  I think I'll price it on those lines . 

I'm now thinking of a 10mm  X 2 core as a feed ,   and could go with 5  X  10A DP/  RCBOs  in a DB  and use standard 16A Commando type sockets which I get quite cheap . 

I still think the panel is too far away from where the vans will be ...and whether its acceptable by the Caravan Club police , thats up to client to sort .

 

[ProDave]

I think the distance thing could be up to the site?

Caravans as standard carry a 25 metre mains lead.

I guess the site owner could locate the sockets further away if HE provided an additional longer cable to reach each pitch. But then HE is responsible for that cable being safe, i.e PA testing them.

 

[kme]

At least this year will be easier, after all the rods are already in and I presume you just rolled the cable and boxes up, ready for this year!!!!

Cable wise, yes.

But, because the field is rented, the rods had to come back out after the weekend

 

[Sharpend]

Cable wise, yes.

But, because the field is rented, the rods had to come back out after the weekend

Next time bury them a little further!! Locate the following year with a metal detector!!!

 

[kme]

:slap

Some bugger would dig em up, and dob them in to a scrapper, knowing my luck................

Or someone`s horse/cow/other thing would churn the end up, and injure itself.........

P`raps not

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Section 708 caravan/camping parks & similar locations does state that pitch supply connections should be not more than 20m from the connection @ the caravan......

708.530.3   pg 224...

and as Pdave says

a standard caravan connection lead is 25m +/- 2m  pg 225

or 721.55.2.6 (ii)  pg 257...

Thats been standard for many years now .. e.g. 608-08-08

But then thats only BS7671 guidance.......

Nowt to do with SIte owners or caravan club etc..

Would you have to justify your deviations if you put your points further away????

:C

 

[Evans Electric]

  Where they are asking for the sockets is on the outer wall of a blacksmiths forge ... not a problem to me  other than I think its too far from the paddock .   

 

[cornish terrorist]

Iis this installation temporary as a whole different set of regs apply, you should look at what type of earthing arrangement is at the origin of supply if its TNS then you can use ordinary breakers in the DB and you could fit dual outlet sockets that come prewired to individual rcbos they also do singles the advantage is the person who uses the pitch can reset the Rcd , if you put them in a cupboard they will be chasing someone to reset the pitch.

You can get a twin or dual outlet socket enclosed for about 40-60 quid.if you use Denmans they have some good offers on caravan sockets.

25M max to socket to caravan to meet disconnection times  

 

[Evans Electric]

Thanks for your input Terrorist.

Are not  all caravan sites temporary by their nature .  Far as I know they have permission for a 5 van site ,  most visitors will be going to the nearby NEC  for the various events apparently .   Crufts etc. 

Supply according to my mate is TNS    I thought it was PME for some reason . 

Thanks , I use Denmans , they've done me a decent deal on a 3 plug and a 2 plug . They were in last months Connector but not this months.

I realised I'm doing that old Sparky thing of getting too involved , which I said I'd never do , they want it on the wall ...they get it on the wall ...   it'll be electrically right ....where they park the vans is out of my remit .     

 

[ProDave]

All I can say is they better get themselves some long mains leads, or their customers are not going to be happy.

And if they think they can just plug two leads in series to make up the length, then they better find somewhere waterproof to put the junction, not just  leave it lying on the ground to fill up with water (which is what WILL happen)

I would have thought the Caravan Club would have something to say on this. If it does not meet THEIR specifications then they can't advertise it as a site with mains hookup.