central heating zoning

[fatboysparks]

Hello to everyone

Im newish to this am more of a reader than a poter as it were.

I have been told that the new building regs with regards to central heating states that the upstairs and downstairs radiators require zoning as this is more effiecient.

is this true and have anybody else come across this?

ive been asked to quote for a new central heating system for a friend and would like to know if i need to fit 2 thermostats and a three port valve or which is the best way of doing it?

Many thanks

fatboy

 

[Sharpend]

Two stats, three two port valves.

 

[OnOff]

Mine sounds similar. Downstairs is an old single pipe system. Upstairs is the more modern flow/return. I have two stats one up and one down. One 3 port valve and two 2 port valves plus a couple of contactors. Common return. I've added ball valves so I can isolate each system to work on it. I have some fag packet drawings from about 12 years ago...............will dig them out if of interest.

 

[Steve3948]

Is this a new building regulation then, I've not heard any plumbers banging on about it.

Maybe a quick google may help.

 

[ProDave]

Building regs only apply to new builds, so if this is a new heating system to an existing house you can ignore it.

 

[m4tty]

Think I remember this being mentioned on a Honeywell course I went on last year.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Hello to everyone Im newish to this am more of a reader than a poter as it were.

I have been told that the new building regs with regards to central heating states that the upstairs and downstairs radiators require zoning as this is more effiecient.

is this true and have anybody else come across this?

ive been asked to quote for a new central heating system for a friend and would like to know if i need to fit 2 thermostats and a three port valve or which is the best way of doing it?

Many thanks

fatboy

Welcome to the forum. Anytime a question like this is asked the correct place to look is the appropriate building regs documents and/or contacting your LABC. There are numerous half truth old-wives tales doing the rounds on various aspects of building regs, from people who only have partial knowledge. Firstly a browse of the Approved documents Planning Portal - Approved Documents - Downloads Will show that there isn't actually a specific building regs approved document relating to central heating systems. Most central heating boilers also provide the properties hot water, so some relevant facts may be in "Part G (Sanitation, Hot Water Safety and Water Efficiency)" Also the actual room heating aspect will have aspects under the conservation of fuel "Part L (Conservation of fuel and power)" If there is a solid fuel burner as well attached to the heating system, then no doubt "Part J (Heat producing appliances)" would also need to be referenced. There are specific requirements about correctly commissioning a heating system, e.g. balancing it up to avoid wasted heat in one part of the property. And ensuring the homeowner has correct documentation so that they can set the heating appropriate to their needs easily. New installed radiators should have thermostatic valves fitted anyway which can provided added zonal control of heat. I am not away of it being mandatory to install multiple zones for standard domestic heating systems. However if doing a major refurbishment or new install, then the added cost for some multiple zones would be negligible but provide a far more flexible system for the homeowner. Just a simple thermostat & two port valve, per zone, would do the job or a manifold system could make control a bit more compact. If in doubt ring your LABC check what they want. Or if this is an existing property, who is going to come and police you if you only do fit one thermostat?

Doc H.

 

[NozSpark]

I'e got one to wire up tat's going to have 4 stats and 5 two port valves:O

 

[fatboysparks]

Thank you for all your replies i spoke to a technician at gas safe and they said that yes it was a new regulation however i believe they are planning to scrap it as it was one of those ideas that someone in an office thought of but is not always practical.

after speaking to a boiler manufacturer today they have heard of the regulation but nobody seems to know anything about it,l however it would certainley give better control over the heating system.

many thanks again for all your replies

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thank you for all your replies i spoke to a technician at gas safe and they said that yes it was a new regulation however i believe they are planning to scrap it as it was one of those ideas that someone in an office thought of but is not always practical.after speaking to a boiler manufacturer today they have heard of the regulation but nobody seems to know anything about it,l however it would certainley give better control over the heating system.

many thanks again for all your replies

You need to speak to your local authority building control (LABC) about building regs, not a gas safe technician, nor boiler manufactures. remember there are loads of "electrical technicians / installers / 5WW" here who haven't got a clue about the Building regs! So there will be just as many Gas-Safe wannabees who haven't got a clue as well! Building regs = Building control at the council as the best place to ask.

Doc H.

 

[brummydave]

Hear hear to the Doc, LABCs have the final word. The legislation change is to comply with Building Regs L1- conservation of heat and power. You can download them for free from Planning Portal - Approved Document L

My tuppence worth (and not a wives tale) is from when I spoke to Danfoss last year at Installer Live. They produced some very helpful documents - with pictures! - on how and what to control systems with. Catered for all the variables. Off the top of my head if the floor area is under 150m2 then the heating zone needs a prog stat and is separate from the water. But if the place is over 150m2 then that's where different heating zones come in. One up One down could be the way to go.

If your boiler's on the ground floor though it's not much more work or pipework to run one set of pipes up and one down usually?

I appreciate as a control manufacturer Danfoss, Honeywell and the like want us to fit more of their stuff. but a properly used well controlled system is much more efficient so it makes sense.

One bit of info was that a new system has to be up to current standard (like with wiring), it doesn't matter whether the building is new or not.

As the doc says, check the regs for the final word, and the labc on how your area interpret them!

 

[wozz]

FWIW i think the heating controls we use today, we will look back on in years to come and laugh at alot of it!

 

[batty]

I'e got one to wire up tat's going to have 4 stats and 5 two port valves:O

A lot of the system I do have quite a few zones and to me these are easier to wire than a Y plan. I always have to look at the plan for a y plan as I don't do to many. I find Y plans tend to go wrong more than other plans too. The valves don't seem to last.

 

[snoopy101]

hi,

its been a requirement to zone since 2010 for small dwellings and has always been a regulation for propertys above 150 sq.meters for years. its a requirement even with combi boilers. Most heating engineers including me for most part have ignored this tho, mainly due to the fact it wont save the customer the money it costs to put in, its alot more work and customers currently seem to be going for the lowest/cheapest options when having work done and if you quote for it you will lose the work to somebody who has not.

On new build that requires the work to be sighed off by nhbc etc.... it is being done if planning permission was gained after the 2010 date.

i think most heating engineers think its a stupid idea on small dwellings, but hey these people who make these things up need to keep there jobs.

 

[steptoe]

nice to know you guys have the same rubbish to put up with as us,

desk jockeyts trying to justify their wages!! headbang