Electric meter - end of life

[binky]

I suppose if you want to stay a caveman, so be it, seems daft to me.

It's fair to say there's been quite a few issues with the smart meter systems. Allowing multiple different systems was also daft. Hopefully those issues have since been resolved, but problems still get reported regularly, so I'm giving them a miss for the moment.

 

[Bruspark]

Inteligent Tariffs?
See the amount youre spending on the in house display?
Compare costs of using gas heating / electric heating?
Power saving sessions?
They all seem like advantages to me which you cant have without a smart meter.

What advantages does the supplier get?

To be fair I've worked for a number of Utility companies and never saw a new tariff or innovation get agreed /funded/rolled out that wouldn't make them more money overall even if it did have some headline 'shiny bits' for the customers.

This was definitely so for smart meters which reduce meter reading house visits and are especially handy for for disconnections.

 

[johnb2713]

Half hourly tariffs may start out cheap (carrot) but i feel certain will end up expensive if you dare to want to cook your dinner at 6PM in an electric oven (stick)

People do seem to have this mis apprehension that the intelligent tariffs are horrendously expensive at peak times. My off peak is 7.5p and peak is 29.2p which to my mind is as good as it gets. At the end of this contract it rises to 12.5p and 40.2p the peak is still inline with other standard tariffs.

Once you have a smart meter, you might not end up with a choice.

Highly unlikely, just a rumour invented and spread by conspiracy theorists.

You can see your usage and work out costs on a normal meter.

You can indeed but not as instant as provided by a Smart Meter and not as convenient.

I don't wish to curtail my electricity usage at particular times.

Neither do I but topping up the batteries mid afternoon and then running totally on battery power for the saving time is no hardship and has earned me £35 over the last couple of weeks, I'm up for that!

 

[johnb2713]

I was reading on one of the cyber security forums that some (early I presume) smart meters are fairly easily hacked to shut off the supply 'for laughs' using the remote disconnect functionality while others will shortly lose their 3G based connectivity and become dumb again.

Surprising there are no reports of it actually happening? 3G has been reinstated by some airtime providers. A village local to me some miscreants climbed over into the transformer cage and threw the breaker, plunging the local area into darkness so it's not just potentially smart meters that leave you vulnerable to darkness.

I'll be ready to adopt 'like a good customer' once this sort of windows 95 era nonsense has been resolved

There really is nothing to fear in my experience.

 

[johnb2713]

but instead of following the legal process they'll just turn the meter off without any warning and do what they want. bit like the american police policy of shoot first, ask questions later

They still have to follow the legal process, the end user will have had plenty of warning i.e. final demands etc.

 

[johnb2713]

and the next feature thatll probably be built in is frequency monitoring, frequency starts going down and the pence per unit will increase from the 'standard' rate...

I dont see why that would be implemented.

 

[johnb2713]

It has already been on the news that they have been converting some customers to pre payment without asking or even telling them, and the first they know about it is when their pre payment runs out the meter goes off until they top up the credit.

And you think that these customers wont have had any letters requesting payment or contact? I dont think so. Why let truth get in the way of a good hard luck news story eh?

 

[johnb2713]

It's fair to say there's been quite a few issues with the smart meter systems. Allowing multiple different systems was also daft.

It beggars belief that the initial role out was tied to supply companies. Smets2 though is now universal which resolves that issue.

 

[johnb2713]

To be fair I've worked for a number of Utility companies and never saw a new tariff or innovation get agreed /funded/rolled out that wouldn't make them more money overall even if it did have some headline 'shiny bits' for the customers.

That would of course be good business practice surely?

This was definitely so for smart meters which reduce meter reading house visits and are especially handy for for disconnections.

Which benefits all of the customers except the ones that were stealing electricity.

 

[Andy™]

They still have to follow the legal process, the end user will have had plenty of warning i.e. final demands etc.

they'll only have to follow their own internal precedures... no outside involvement who could assess situation independantly until after the damage is done etc

 

[Andy™]

I dont see why that would be implemented.

easy... frequency drops if there is more demand than supply, and everytime there is more demand than supply on pretty much anything the price goes up....

 

[Andy™]

And you think that these customers wont have had any letters requesting payment or contact? I dont think so. Why let truth get in the way of a good hard luck news story eh?

in many cases then yes, there will have been plenty contact and demands to get payment etc, however there are also cases where the supplier is the one who's screwed up...

 

[Andy™]

Which benefits all of the customers except the ones that were stealing electricity.

if you're wanting to steal electric, then a smart meter isn't going to stop you. might limit your options but definatly wont stop you

 

[johnb2713]

they'll only have to follow their own internal precedures... no outside involvement who could assess situation independantly until after the damage is done etc

It seems pretty legal to me:-

"You have several rights to prevent your energy being disconnected. Having your energy cut off is rare. It's a last resort (and shouldn't happen if you're in dispute with your supplier about overcharging). Even if your bill is correct and you can't pay it, it's more likely that you'll be offered a solution like fitting a prepayment meter in your home, so you can't build up debt you can't manage.

The law on what energy companies must do is set out in the Standard Conditions of Energy Supply Licence issued under the Electricity Act 1989. I’ll refer to it as SLC in this article.

If you can't afford to pay for the energy you've used - if the bill is higher than normal for some legitimate reason - then talk to your supplier. SLC paragraph 27.5 requires your supplier to work with you to find the best way for you personally to manage your energy costs and any debt. This might involve setting up a repayment plan or, as I've said, getting a prepayment meter.

It's also worth noting that suppliers aren't allowed to disconnect you during the Winter if you're a pensioner, living alone or living with children under 18 (SLC para 27.10). As part of the Safety Net scheme by Energy UK, the six main energy suppliers in the UK have also agreed that you can't be disconnected at any time of year ‘for reasons of age, health, disability or severe financial insecurity.'

If you can't come to an agreement to settle your debt, your energy supplier can apply to court for a warrant to enter your home and force you to have a prepayment meter, or even cut off your supply. The supplier has to send you a notice telling you they're applying to court. You should do everything you can to come to an agreement with your supplier before the court date. If you don't contact them, you should attend the court hearing, when, again, you can try to come to an agreement. If the court gives the supplier a warrant, your supplier should send you a notice in writing 7 days before coming to your home to cut you off. If your meter is outside of your property, they don't need a warrant, but most suppliers will get a warrant anyway.

Under Schedule 6 of the Electricity Act 1989, your supplier is allowed to disconnect your electricity if you haven’t made the relevant payments, but not if the bill is genuinely being disputed, and not unless they’ve given you 7 working days’ notice."

 

[johnb2713]

easy... frequency drops if there is more demand than supply, and everytime there is more demand than supply on pretty much anything the price goes up....

Surely they would switch loads off if we got close to this rather than dropping frequency and everything flat out.

 

[johnb2713]

in many cases then yes, there will have been plenty contact and demands to get payment etc, however there are also cases where the supplier is the one who's screwed up...

Absolutely, the smart meter however should reduce the ability of the supplier to make mistakes.

 

[johnb2713]

if you're wanting to steal electric, then a smart meter isn't going to stop you. might limit your options but definatly wont stop you

The ability to turn the supply off is what I'm referring to, the people that use the supply and refuse to pay, not the ones that bypass the meter.

 

[ProDave]

Absolutely, the smart meter however should reduce the ability of the supplier to make mistakes.

From reading various threads on the internet, it seems they make more mistakes. Just look at the number of people having issues with E7 billing and timing issues.

 

[Andy™]

Surely they would switch loads off if we got close to this rather than dropping frequency and everything flat out.

if there is a major problem then yes, areas will start getting cut off, that's what happened a few years ago, few power stations tripped within a short timeframe, demand was much higher than supply so the network grid done exactly what it was supposed to do and start disconnecting areas to remove demand until there was adequate generation, which meant some areas were off, but at least the entire grid didn't fail like what happened in america a while back...

but this is nothing to do with meters anyway, its not the meters that would disconnect you, its national grid / DNO's, and it wont be individual houses, it'll be large areas, and enough to get demand vs supply back in balance

fact is, frequency changes often. its always around 50 but does vary depending on demand vs supply, and effectively could be used to determine charging more for using electricity at 'peak' times vs 'off peak' times

 

[johnb2713]

From reading various threads on the internet, it seems they make more mistakes. Just look at the number of people having issues with E7 billing and timing issues.

and is that because it's a smart meter? - NO is it because the system has been incorrectly configured - YES