Electrical Danger Notice!!! Client Seriously Not Happy

[kme]

I read "power shower" to be a shower that takes hot and cold water, mixes them, and pumps it to give a higher flow, so minimal demand.

Me too; probably because that`s the name for `em.

And I said originally, its the same as a PIR (EICR). The only person who can make a definitive decision is the guy signing the paperwork.

For instance. At the moment, I am working with other sparx (most of whom are members here) on a medium sized industrial PIR / EICR (call it what you will).

My name isn`t on the bottom of the cert. Ergo, any issues I consider relevant can be advised, in my opinion - but it isn`t my choice as to the code. In reality, we all discuss things between ourselves, as the more brains involved, the better.....but I cannot say " that is a code 1". Hope you see what I mean?

 

[Electroglow]

Can u explain why non fire rated down lights are dangours?

Also the insulation that covers them should not be coverd even if they are fire rated...

Fire rated fittings only stop fire from rising up past the fitting. They do not stop the cause of fire by insulation covering them

 

[sellers]

Danger notice if theres an imediate danger to life, or you have worked on a circuit, found something you should fix as part of the job but the customer won't pay.

A written letter for recommendations.

 

[steptoe]

for my tuppence,

an EDN is only for a code 1 [C1} +1

ie, not simply an immediate danger that will occur, but one that is very likely and will cause death or injury when it does happen,

non earthed metal fitting are only a cause for concern if another fault occurs to cause them to become live.

same as no MEBs [or whatever Deke calls them today], only an issue when another fault occurs.

a bare wire straight from the head sticking out of the floor in the babies bedroom,

I'd pull the main fuse and make sure nothing could be put back in, deffo an EDN +100

am I rambling yet?

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Can u explain why non fire rated down lights are dangours? Also the insulation that covers them should not be coverd even if they are fire rated...

Fire rated fittings only stop fire from rising up past the fitting. They do not stop the cause of fire by insulation covering them

no, cos they are not,

its only the manner in which they are installed that makes them dangerous,

can you tell me why guns are dangerous?

no? cos they are not, its the people holding them that are,

similar situation.

 

[green-hornet]

Mrs and Mr Streetlighter, you remind me of every newly qualified tradesman, fully aware of regulation but seriously lacking in common sense. The last thing you want is to scare a client into submission.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

so out of a safety concern we issued the danger notice!

we stated that it is our recommendation that a full Electrical Installation Condition Report be carried out, but in our experience we would recommend a full rewire!

According to GN3 if an installation was as bad as you have stated & issued a danger notice then its unsafe to test, think about it ?

now the client has been on the phone today mouthing off (rather visciously)

we have supposedly caused implications with her insurance now

she is going to take legal action aparantly

she is not going to recommend us to anyone (not that im bothered)

and J Southern Electricals Ltd can go screw themselves was her exact words!

Don't worry about that, its only a bit of paper that is probably already in the bin. Why would she show it to her insurance ? Its like saying to a police man, my cars brakes aren't working correctly but i need to drive across town.

You did what you thought was correct, she cant take any legal action against you for advising. However i doubt i would have issued a danger notice for the reasons you have said.

 

[Theorysparky]

I wouldn't have issued a notice

I would have though compiled a letter stating your observations and recommending an EICR

hand deliver it

you would then have been covered........may not have got paid for it.....but as a sparks sometimes you need to take a 'hit' rather than just walk away

i wouldnt have slept well knowing i did nothing..

 

[ianmacd]

Aside from the debate over if a EDN should have been issued, I am still unsure what she thinks she is going to sue you for? Of course her inurance will be impacted and if she fails to disclose it, they will null and void it. Also if she makes a claim while knowing that she has been issued a EDN, she could be charged with fraud.

 

[Chr!s]

Hey guys n girlsin a bit of a pickle!

issued a Danger Notice, whilst out doing a quote!

Original Quote was for

'got a socket in me extension, its not working can you come have a look at it'

we went and had a look at it and its spurred from somewhere, so we begin to have a look around in other sockets, etc all over the house to try and find where it is spurred from!

when we started opening up other areas of the property, we begin finding things that where of extreme serious concern!

Old Wylex Unit with Push Pop (i think they are BS3871 breakers

No RCD Protection

secondary board 3871 breaker again 45a feeding a board in the loft which then feeds 2 Electric Power Showers

3rd board in garage feeding lighting and SWA to garden greenhouse, which feeds pond pump, and lighting

Metal Faceplate switches and sockets, most circuits are still being supplied with VIR (vulcanised indian rubber)

the tails are cloth braided and extremely undersized

non fire rated or ip rated downlighters in a bathroom covered by loft insulation and boarded out!

the list is endless

so out of a safety concern we issued the danger notice!

we stated that it is our recommendation that a full Electrical Installation Condition Report be carried out, but in our experience we would recommend a full rewire!

now the client has been on the phone today mouthing off (rather visciously)

we have supposedly caused implications with her insurance now

she is going to take legal action aparantly

she is not going to recommend us to anyone (not that im bothered)

and J Southern Electricals Ltd can go screw themselves was her exact words!

now we dont issue these notices for no aparant reason, and we also told the client on the eve of the quote about the problems!

i was wondering wether ther is a way of finding out whom insures her property so i can forward a copy of the report onto them! and wether contact the DNO and making them aware of the electrical danger!

she says that she has been there 40 years, and had no problems with the electrics, and that she does not intend on upgrading any of it, as she feels it isnt a danger! i seriously feel this property poses danger!

any advice be great guys n girls!

Id say you would be better off drawing up your self a Visual Condition Report. This way you can advise the customer on the installation and what recommendations you are advising.

|My understanding is that a EDN requires the client to advise their insurance company, hence why she may feel a little unhappy. Id leave the EDN for potentially or dangerous situations. Now if adjacent combustible materials to the downlights show a real sign of danger(scorched, charred)for example and you felt there was a real risk of fire then a EDN would be applicable in my opinion.

 

[ivixxiv]

TBH, I'd be ****ed off as well if you condemend my electrics on what you've said, esp without testing anything

your website is pretty misleading (to anyone who doesn't know any better) re RCDs as well

 

[Andy™]

Id say you would be better off drawing up your self a Visual Condition Report. This way you can advise the customer on the installation and what recommendations you are advising.|My understanding is that a EDN requires the client to advise their insurance company, hence why she may feel a little unhappy. Id leave the EDN for potentially or dangerous situations. Now if adjacent combustible materials to the downlights show a real sign of danger(scorched, charred)for example and you felt there was a real risk of fire then a EDN would be applicable in my opinion.

EDN is not recognised by 7671. so i doubt many insurance co's would be asking if you had one

 

[M107]

All I can post is what my normal course of action is in this type of senario (such as the lights on ringmain I posted about the other night) ;

find the obvious problem that leads on to a very quick snoop around the property, find a few more problems & using my common sense & trade knowledge I will make a deision to either just make a note on the quote stating " XX items need resolving before quoted works can be undertaken" & give my reason for making such a statement.

If there are more than a few problems (such as Mr & Mrs Street lighter have posted) I will then free of charge (tip: send an invoice showing

 

[ProDave]

Only ever issued one danger notice & that was due to the service cutout with side missing off the fuse carrier & the whole lot hanging off the wall at knee height in the lounge of a mid terrace.............with two toddlers running around I thought it prudent.

A more prudent action would be to report it to the DNO immediately as an urgent safety issue and request someone attend immediately as an emergency.

 

[philbas]

I agree in thory, but if its after the cutout they dont want to know

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

now the client has been on the phone today mouthing off (rather visciously)

we have supposedly caused implications with her insurance now

she is going to take legal action aparantly

she is not going to recommend us to anyone (not tI'mt im bothered)

and J SoutElectricalicals Ltd can go screw themselves was her exact words!

So the customer has a complaint about your work/report...

i was wondering wether ther is a way of finding out whom insures her property so i can forward a copy of the report onto them! and wether contact the DNO and making them aware of the electrical danger!

any advice be great guys n girls!

When a customer makes a complaint why would any procedure be to contact a third party not directly involved in the contract between you and the customer.???

Here

 

[Chr!s]

[quote name='Andy

 

[M107]

A more prudent action would be to report it to the DNO immediately as an urgent safety issue and request someone attend immediately as an emergency.

That was done by the home owner while i was there, infact I pointed out where they could find the emergency number for SSE. Only did the danger notice to cover my own backside once I'd left the property.

 

[ivixxiv]

Did anything come of this?

 

[steptoe]

I think a verbal contract would exist.

therefore if you issue an EDN and the client signs to accept it a contract has taken place,

I may be wrong, but does a contract always have to explicitly state that a sum of money changes hands?

 

[Chr!s]

I think a verbal contract would exist.therefore if you issue an EDN and the client signs to accept it a contract has taken place,

I may be wrong, but does a contract always have to explicitly state that a sum of money changes hands?

My point is you don't need to do anything, your just giving a quote, no contract no work.

Contract = Work for gain or reward

EAWR Guidance

2 The Regulations are made under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974

(HSW Act). The HSW Act imposes duties principally on employers, the selfemployed and on employees, including certain classes of trainees. The Regulations

impose duties on people (referred to in this Memorandum as