Extending socket position

[bhamoggy]

Ok, this is gonna be really basic but here's the scenario .

Basement flat, kitchen, concrete floor.

I need to change the position of one socket on a Ring circuit that is chest height at the moment and move it to the same height a meter along the wall cause new kitchen and tops being fitted, the position is just above work surfaces.

So what is best way to rewire considering the floor is concrete.

Not sure if cable runs up or down yet but if it runs up, I don't want to pull the ceiling down.

What way to do it ?

 

[Zeespark]

Has the ceiling above got floor boards on top if it? if so you could pull them up to fish your cable down.

AndyGuinness

 

[bhamoggy]

The ceiling is plasterboard all over

 

[Doc Hudson]

Ok, this is gonna be really basic but here's the scenario .Basement flat, kitchen, concrete floor.

I need to change the position of one socket on a Ring circuit that is chest height at the moment and move it to the same height a meter along the wall cause new kitchen and tops being fitted, the position is just above work surfaces.

So what is best way to rewire considering the floor is concrete.

Not sure if cable runs up or down yet but if it runs up, I don't want to pull the ceiling down.

What way to do it ?

The first thing to do is to open up the socket and see which way any cables run. See if it is just a ring pair or if it is a spur or if it is a ring with spurs off it. Without this info its a bit tricky to suggest the best. Can the existing socket be left and just add an additional one, or has the old position got to be moved? Safe zones could be an issue if it is completely moving.

Doc H.

 

[bhamoggy]

The socket has to be moved so can't be left

 

[NozSpark]

If it's got horizontal cable runs then it's easy, crimp & glue lined heatshrink.

If it's vertical then moving it will take the safe zone away so why not do the sama as above, but also add a socket or blank plate at high level to define the vertical zone (wouldn't even need a backbox? )

 

[OnOff]

What's happening to the existing socket position? Can you not consider a horizontal chase to the new socket position from the old and maybe a blanking plate across the old position - for accessing the joins where the cables are extended. A horizontal chase would be within the prescribed zones. I know some still don't like going horizontal between sockets but.........if worried about mechanical protection then stick it in a length 25mm conduit maybe - assume were talking 2x2.5 T&E?

 

[Sharpend]

Three choices dependant upon existing wiring configuration.

One,lift the floor above to access cables and pull up and relocate to new position (as suggested).

Two, chase up the wall to ceiling height and then across at ceiling level(top of wall within 6" of ceiling) to new position, may mean extending cable (would have to be done with permanent joints).

Three, chase horizontally from exisiting point to new point extend cables and fit a blank plate over existing position to indicate cables present.

Naturally a better opinion would be to get a local spark in for seconds opinion.

 

[daveygh]

can you not carefully chase out existing cables to the ceiling, extend with crimps and heat shrink, run parallel to the ceilng within the 150mm horizontal zone and drop down to new socket position. that way all safe zones are satisfied.

 

[bhamoggy]

What's happening to the existing socket position? Can you not consider a horizontal chase to the new socket position from the old and maybe a blanking plate across the old position - for accessing the joins where the cables are extended. A horizontal chase would be within the prescribed zones. I know some still don't like going horizontal between sockets but.........if worried about mechanical protection then stick it in a length 25mm conduit maybe - assume were talking 2x2.5 T&E?

Yes thanks for your help, yes it'll be 2.5 t&e

I thought you had to be 150mm from corner of room to be able to go horizontal ?

 

[OnOff]

Yes thanks for your help, yes it'll be 2.5 t&eI thought you had to be 150mm from corner of room to be able to go horizontal ?

Nope, check this:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i62/RFLighting/safezones.jpg

(Same as on one of the NICEIC cards that Mr Cable gave me if I'm not mistaken!)

HOWEVER,,,,,,,Joe Public STILL like to see cup hooks neatly positioned between sockets on a wall.........which is why I like steel conduit between if going horizontal. No need for it but belt and braces IMO. Then again, even with vertical drops didn't this decorative METAL dinner gong etc just BEG to go directly above the light switch!

 

[bhamoggy]

So you can effectively run an entire ring circuit horizontally along the wall then?

If you do horizontal runs, does the cable have to be run in steel conduit or can you just chase the walls, run the cable then plaster over it?

 

[Manator]

Horizontal runs are allowed but great care should be taken in doing so. In a domestic kitchen for example the horizontal run will be behind tiles more often than not and probably safer. If you look at the link provided above you can see the safe zones.

 

[OnOff]

So you can effectively run an entire ring circuit horizontally along the wall then?If you do horizontal runs, does the cable have to be run in steel conduit or can you just chase the walls, run the cable then plaster over it?

Yes you can. IMO it saves shed loads on cable. Note there is a BIG difference of opinion on this irrespective of what the safe zones are. Half the battle is educating the public. No it doesn't need to be in steel conduit but it does IMO offer the best mechanical protection. Cables in walls that are to be plastered over should be capped with plastic or steel capping - potential for the additives in the cement etc to eat the pvc sheathing of the T&E. There is also a fair argument AGAINST the 150mm zone by the ceiling.........perfect for the Christmas decoration drawing pins or nails to hold the coving in place whilst it sets............

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Not that I've got a fetish for steel conduit or anything.......... :Blushing

 

[Manator]

Not that I've got a fetish for steel conduit or anything.......... :Blushing

Are you sure about that?

:slap

 

[bhamoggy]

This has been great all the help an input from you guys.

I class myself as semi skilled, done 2330 level 2&3 and 2391 plus 17th but only done a year or so on the job and that's been all commercial so I've really got no domestic experience so this has been extremely helpful with what you guys have passed on, thanks very much

 

[OnOff]

Are you sure about that? :slap

I'm 6'5" so I can't argue with any "big bender" comments can I?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:15 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:11 ----------

This has been great all the help an input from you guys.I class myself as semi skilled, done 2330 level 2&3 and 2391 plus 17th but only done a year or so on the job and that's been all commercial so I've really got no domestic experience so this has been extremely helpful with what you guys have passed on, thanks very much

Don't know what books you have but you might want to get yourself a copy of the Electricians Guide To The Building Regs from the IET. NICEIC do a good Domestic Electrical Installation Guide too............

 

[Sharpend]

No wonder you weren't worried about the wife wanting the gong above the light switch!

 

[OnOff]

No wonder you weren't worried about the wife wanting the gong above the light switch!

Gong was in the house when we came. It'll be coming out and a nice chase going in for a STEEL conduit drop to a switch position at the Part M height. All conduits running through the loft again in steel all the way back to the CU. All in singles eventually. I have a problem with / aversion to these:

Cos they do this:

 

[bhamoggy]

Don't know what books you have but you might want to get yourself a copy of the Electricians Guide To The Building Regs from the IET. NICEIC do a good Domestic Electrical Installation Guide too............

I've got a few but not these, I'll check out amazon, thanks a lot