fire sealing in riser cupboards

[binky]

An independent inspection has raised the issue of a lack of fire sealing between floors in the riser cupboards. Building is 3 floors high and there is no control or switch gear in the cupboards. So 2 questions:-

1/ what are the legal requirements for fire sealing in risers

2/ a suitable solution. I was thinking intumescent material packed around holes or even the expanding foam stuff. Not being something I normally get involved with I'm open to advice.

 

[Sharpend]

Is that water coming through with electric? BC don't usually accept this, they like to see separation by means of separate compartments for water and electric. 

Usually a fire expanding foam is sufficient, although plumbs on soil pipes etc are usually directed towards purpose built fire collars. 

 

[Andy™]

why bother when you have a sprinkler system fitted?!

 

[Tony S]

We used Kerlane for cable firebreaks.

For cable protection in high fire risk areas (most of a foundry) they would be coated with ganister cement.

 

[Essex1]

I personally would not use expanding foam. That stuff is lettuced. 

I would fit a trunking system on the one that has no trunking and then fit either fire pillows or intumescent fire blocks. These can then be removed and re-instated to allow wiring if required. 

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Wouldn't expanding foam, or fire pillows for that matter, be considered to be insulating material? Therefore cable derating might need considering. Also derating for bunched cables?

 

[binky]

Not thick enough really Rob.

Ok is it legally required given that the riser cupboard doors are fire rated?

 

[Andy™]

i guess it depends if it goes to a different fire compartment?

 

[Tony S]

I personally would not use expanding foam. That stuff is lettuced. 

I would fit a trunking system on the one that has no trunking and then fit either fire pillows or intumescent fire blocks. These can then be removed and re-instated to allow wiring if required. 

View attachment 7128

View attachment 7129

The reason I suggested Kerlane is it can be removed and reused. We used it for lining annealing furnaces running at 850°C continuously.

The astro-flame may look nice but how much are they?

 

[leesparkykent]

Aico trunking sleeves http://www.aico.co.uk/Fire-Barriers.html

 Intumescent mastic http://www.fireandsafetycentre.co.uk/Products/810/Intumescent_Mastic.html

 

[leesparkykent]

most builders use fire batt and just use intumescent mastic on any gaps. This could over board the existing ceiling in the riser  using fire resistant fixings in to the joists

https://www.firesealsdirect.co.uk/double-sided-coated-fire-batt.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjw4827BRDJvpbVuKvx-rIBEiQA2_CzsAHcC4eX0hKdZ-oAfcYT7vJae5kxGCDHYKOB86hAGV4aAjDK8P8HAQ

http://www.fireproplus.co.uk/passive-fire-protection-c1/firepro-plus-ablative-coated-panel-p52/s122?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=firepro-plus-ablative-coated-panel-size-1200mm-x-600mm-x-50mm-size-1200mm-x-600mm-x-50mm-ablpanel&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=Cj0KEQjw4827BRDJvpbVuKvx-rIBEiQA2_CzsNq37Ufn56nApg0PRM2LHAW9nW4j5yE6bUeR91LYXrgaAr6j8P8HAQ

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fireproof+fixings&view=detailv2&&id=FB90B0F3B80AC0465A35B3AD1DBFF8F1BE9A4C74&selectedIndex=25&ccid=cGFmOw1V&simid=608013481494581197&thid=OIP.M7061663b0d55b8f137a8b478524a1e00o0&ajaxhist=0

 

[binky]

i guess it depends if it goes to a different fire compartment?

I've done some reading, basically the riser is considered a fire compartment (if constructed correctly), so cables going sideways penetrate the fire compartment. Therefore there is some doubt if holes in ceilings are penetrating the compartment as the riser is the compartment, and I've seen modern blocks of flats 20 storeys high with no ceilings, just platforms at each floor. The one issue with that argument in this case, is that there is a good chance some cables penetrating the ceiling then go sideways before reaching the next levels cupboard. Just can't see if they do or don't. If they do, then I think intumescent sealing is required. There is another debate then if each cupboard should have smoke detector head in it as a sealed compartment?

 

[Essex1]

The reason I suggested Kerlane is it can be removed and reused. We used it for lining annealing furnaces running at 850°C continuously.

The astro-flame may look nice but how much are they?

Not huge costs.  Less than £50.