kitchen help request

[alpha spark]

http://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/CP_Electrical_Scheme.pdf

 

[wicksy]

Apache who has said its a special location as I can't find it?

 

[OnOff]

Read page 8 of Part P, "Additional Notes":

a. Notifiable jobs include new circuits back to the consumer unit and extensions to circuits in kitchens and special locations (bathrooms etc) and associated with special installations 9garden lighting and power installations etc).

 

[Apache]

I concede - I have the table from the part P document stating what is and what isn't notifiable! Not especially fair if you don't read the notes. I do partially blame the way the document is set out!

 

[OnOff]

From a practical point of view when planning a kitchen it might be worth you reading up on the Part P requirements, LOTS to take on board, and little things like minimum height of sockets above worktops, minimum distance of sockets in relation to sinks, positioning of cooker switches e.g. not where you have to reach over the hob etc. The Part P Doctor (one of the sponsors on here) does a book on Part P which I assume covers these things.

Loads of little things where a bit of forethought can help. Do you supply the fridge and freezer from their own dedicated circuit(s)? Do you supply that single oven over 2kW by plugging into the ring or again it's own dedicated circuit? Instead of a ring maybe a couple of radials? Under cupboard lighting - how will you feed / switch that? Ditto plinth lighting. Do you minimize chasing by running the socket wiring in continuous, decorative angled trunking up under the cupboards or use angled "lab" sockets atop the worktop?

(TBH not read it as I have the IET and NICEIC ones myself but only hear good things).

...........only mention these as I have "a friend" who did his kitchen and thought about some of this stuff after the event! :Blushing

 

[welchyboy]

Regs aside, I'm a competent diy'er!

Love it! they go together so well!

Couldn't make it up!

Phil when I price for a job and the customer is keen to help too I price the job exactly the same as if he not going to, as I will no doubt have to come behind him and sort out his work afterwards and most sparks I know will do this too

Why don't you get a professional in, then while your at work earning money to pay him he will be doing a proper job with all the proper paperwork in place afterwards, and you get to come home and it's all taken care of, and you can spend quality time with your family on the weekend instead of grunting and cursing, chipping out a wall with a bolster and claw hammer cause you haven't got a wall chaser cause your a competent diy'er and not a professional tradesmen!

 

[phil.m]

you're not wrong about the damage. i've already pulled out all the socket cast iron boxes in the front and bedrooms and some of the lightswitches. they were attached to metal conduit via a screwed clamp. one or 2 would not budge so had to yank the box off leaving the screwed clamp still in place which meant sharp edges at the base of the conduit.

as you can see in this pic

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae260/philcharli/CIMG1813.jpg

there is a bent conduit going to the cooker coonection point. this i know is now illegal. so was planning to pull the out completely. so no cooker connection. the built in cooker which is a baumatic needs just a 13 amp spur according to the instructions, and will be positioned just below the cast iron back box input.

the back box has a metal plate that covers it, with a hole in the bottom which outputted the single ring main spur.

if i keep the backbox in situ, what connection unit could i use to feed the circuit ??

anyway thanks for your help.

 

[ParkySparky]

Is this a wind up?

 

[Theorysparky]

Is this a wind up?

no its not

its a 5WW training company trying to learn before they have their first students !!!

sorry op not aimed at you

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:54 ----------

there is a bent conduit going to the cooker coonection point. this i know is now illegal. so was planning to pull the out completely. so no cooker connection. the built in cooker which is a baumatic needs just a 13 amp spur according to the instructions, and will be positioned just below the cast iron back box input.

the back box has a metal plate that covers it, with a hole in the bottom which outputted the single ring main spur.

if i keep the backbox in situ, what connection unit could i use to feed the circuit ??

anyway thanks for your help.

is it metal then not illegal

 

[OnOff]

no its not its a 5WW training company trying to learn before they have their first students !!!

sorry op not aimed at you

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:54 ----------

there is a bent conduit going to the cooker coonection point. this i know is now illegal. so was planning to pull the out completely. so no cooker connection. the built in cooker which is a baumatic needs just a 13 amp spur according to the instructions, and will be positioned just below the cast iron back box input.

the back box has a metal plate that covers it, with a hole in the bottom which outputted the single ring main spur.

if i keep the backbox in situ, what connection unit could i use to feed the circuit ??

anyway thanks for your help.

is it metal then not illegal

..........assuming the metal conduit is earthed! Probably a bit of flexible metal, Kopex etc whacked in diagonally - the shortest distance between two points!

 

[phil.m]

this is not a wind up. i didn't realise this had gone to page 2, so my reply above was to the last reply on page 1. i will re read this thread later and comment on the replies.

i appreciate proffessional tradesmen get a bit irked with amateurs but you've got to try havent you.

the bit about me earning money and paying it to a sparky to do a pro job assumes i've a got a job. which i havent, hence my attempt to utilise what i have got, which is time.

the bit about it being ex-council is however bang on the money. its a right to buy maissonette.

the kitchen is a council grant job (due to the benefits i'm currently on). but i want to save the council some money as the grant wont cover chasing in, just surface mounted crap which i've already got.

anyway let me think about this and read those pesky regulations, which are starting to get on my nerves now.

 

[ParkySparky]

I'm sorry but your attitude is totally out of order! Those pesky regulations are what me and my fellow sparks treat as our bible so to speak! What we have spent years learning. Those pesky regulations are there to keep you and your family safe! And as it is a council grant for your kitchen I'm sure they won't appreciate you trying to say them money by not adhering to their terms! I.e. this works is notifiable and needs signing off accordingly and a proper job making of the install!!!

 

[Andy™]

there is a bent conduit going to the cooker coonection point. this i know is now illegal.

if you actually knew the regulations, you would know that it may well be fully compliant

there are hundreds of pages of regulations, not all of them apply to what your doing, but many of them do. how exactly do you plan on doing the work to regulations when you dont even know the basics?

do you even know what the max Zs of you circuit should be (and do you have the equipment to test it?)

do you know what safe zones are?

do you know about other methods of protection (obviously not, going by your statement above)

do you know how to calculate what size cable you need?

how do you plan on filling out the required EIC (which is required by regulations). you probably done even have a test kit to do the basic tests anyway.

regs also state you must be competent to do the work. something your clearly not

 

[binky]

If council are paying for work, is there a sparky involved?? If so get hold of spark, tell him what you want, get him to advise how to do it, and do the donkey work for him, ie chase out boxes, wall chases, etc etc. Personally, as said by many people on this forum, I would put new circuits in to new mini board so that all current regs are met without having to mess with old conduit systems. Your council spark should be happy with this as this makes his life easier. The other reason for doing this is new circuit should last 40-60 years where as your existing wiring might only have another 10 years left in it even if it did pass test. It also means any future works / problems wont affect the kitchen.

 

[Sharpend]

If this is council grant work then I very much would think that they have made arrangements for a sparks and given him a spec to work too, if you want it all chased in then this is something that you will need to arrange with the council. From my experience with council upgrade work the sparks usually trunk at low level (below worktops), then chase up wall to socket position. So you may want to verify with the council if this is the situation here, you may well be worrying about nothing. Which council as you under?

 

[phil.m]

i should have put a wink after my pesky regs comment. i didnt mean it in the way it was taken.

the last bloke i had round to look at the whole job, which is a kitchen refurb, so not just electrics did suggest exactly that. ie a new circuit dedicated to just the kitchen. how would that fit in with the new skeleton CU as suggested by a previous poster.

so do you mean, the 2 existing conduits would be made redundant ? how would the new wiring then enter ?

also in answer to another previous comment. what do you mean by all new sockets need their own RCD ? do you just mean a new run of several sockets, which for arguments sake, i'm referring to as a circuit ?

 

[paul b b]

Phil, the job you are talking about will require rcd protection. The best way to do this is to change the cu, next best is to fit a small unit next to the fuse box and run your circuit through this. It depends on how you choose to wire the little cu if the fuses become redundant. Few ways of doing this job and they are not straight forward..if you have no idea how to install the second cu then get a spark or you could end up with problems. Do the job right do it once!

Also...check with council if you can do it..aim sure they will want a cert for the work..

Do you have any testing equipment?

 

[gavindrummond]

Hi Philip,

If im right in thinking its the same grant as my mother is currently having then they don't like to bury anything in the walls it's all surface mounted. My mother is having a full house rewire which is also ex council property. All I can suggest is talk to who ever is going to do the work and offer to do all the donkey work like chasing out the drops.

 

[wicksy]

Have you bought the house Phil or is it still a council property?

 

[phil.m]

i've bought the flat.

i have an electrical shedule as recommended by the contractor who carried out the condition test.

as you say, all surface mounted.

i figured i'd do a chasing in job myself, so got a wall chaser off ebay and an sds drill with chisel bits and i've done chases and boxes in the main living room and partly in the bedroom.

on the work i've so far, i've replaced the loose cable that was inside the old trunking with 2.5mm twin earth cable and put in backboxes then replaced the faceplates till i decide what new ones to get.

i'm part finished with this and have simply wired up the ring as i found it.

i will now need to ask the council to redraw the schedule.