Memera 2000 Consumer unit

[Geoff1946]

Not sure how third party car parts are relevant. How have you assessed alternative protective devices are safe, what procedures are you undertaking for this

I think it's a fair comparison.
If a component of any machine or system is specified as being identical in Form, Fit, and Function, then it is reasonable to substitute it.
Obviously the responsibility for ensuring FFF lies with whoever fits the item, but I think many electricians will consider ensuring that as a minor risk relative to the other judgements they make daily.
Insisting on original manufacturer's components is equivalent to insisting on these for your car, which is really only relevant for warranty purposes.

 

[Fleeting]

I think it's a fair comparison.
If a component of any machine or system is specified as being identical in Form, Fit, and Function, then it is reasonable to substitute it.
Obviously the responsibility for ensuring FFF lies with whoever fits the item, but I think many electricians will consider ensuring that as a minor risk relative to the other judgements they make daily.
Insisting on original manufacturer's components is equivalent to insisting on these for your car, which is really only relevant for warranty purposes.

The car parts issue is irrelevant but adding non specified parts to a consumer unit or distribution board is. There is a lot more to compatibility that it being identical in form.

 

[mickey c]

I have and do mix and match where it is safe to do so (crowbar avoidance). Why ? To get power back on.
I sign a MEIWC detailing a departure "not following manufacturers instructions"(try finding those after 30 years !! or "alternative manufacturer device used"
Not all customers can afford a new board and manufacturers should not dictate to the person on the tools what to do if they decide not to make backwards compatible models of OCPD's. Are they not all tested to a BSEN standard? I tend to use reasonably decent brands (although we all know where quality is heading!).
I am not here to ruffle feathers... just to apply a fast reasonable safe solution needed in an emergency.

Why not put a stand alone board in, just for your installation.Then you are not breaking any rules?

 

[binky]

I do that too...its okay. Sometimes not all things are available so I turn to whatever I have or can get at the time...so long as it fits well and of reasonable or better quality.

perhaps fitting a mini board might be a cost effective option rather than mixing components.

 

[Sparksfly]

Not sure how third party car parts are relevant. How have you assessed alternative protective devices are safe, what procedures are you undertaking for this.

Only the ones that are manufactured to BSEN 60898 61009 etc standards ...experience in using said devices from different brands...then applying this to the problem to get a satisfactory conclusion.

 

[Fleeting]

Only the ones that are manufactured to BSEN 60898 61009 etc standards ...experience in using said devices from different brands...then applying this to the problem to get a satisfactory conclusion.

So you have applied no procedures to ensure and prove compatibility. This is your choice but you will be the one trying to justify your actions should something go wrong because if it does you will have zero defence and don't think for one minute it may not happen because it does.

 

[peterspurs]

If it fits fine better then leaving it in a potential dangerous situation
Rather have a different make 20 amp then same make 32amp in certain situations

 

[Fleeting]

If it fits fine better then leaving it in a potential dangerous situation
Rather have a different make 20 amp then same make 32amp in certain situations

If it fits fine it's better than leaving a dangerous situation. What engineering principles and procedures have you applied to come up with such a statement.

 

[peterspurs]

What engineering principles come into it

 

[Fleeting]

What engineering principles come into it

Ones you don't have the know how to confirm compatibility.

 

[peterspurs]

How do you know I don’t know.
This is not about engineering installing an mcb.

 

[Fleeting]

How do you know I don’t know.
This is not about engineering installing an mcb.

You have answered this by your own post. Installing a non compatible protective device extends more than it 'just fitting' and looking the same there is a lot more to it than that. As I stated in #46 this a choice you make and I seriously doubt you can defend this or you wouldn't even be suggesting it.

 

[binky]

How do you know I don’t know.
This is not about engineering installing an mcb.

Trouble is manufactures will only warranty their product when used with their product. Whilst made to the same standard, is not guarantee compatibility when used with a similar product from another manufacturer. Control gear MCBs are identical to MK, but they are Chinese copies.

 

[Sharpend]

I suspect that if there were to be a serious problem within the Board that resulted in an investigation, the manufacturer would immediately relinquish their responsibility and blame the cause to be related to the foreign module fitted. Their defence would be that the electrician named on the certificate has modified the board, fitted incorrect parts etc etc, and therefore has assumed manufacture responsibility.

Now what are the chances? Probably minimal, however it only takes one time and if you can’t defend/prove your actions as an accepted deviation from the regs, then I don’t fancy your chances!!

 

[Murdoch]

I suspect that if there were to be a serious problem within the Board that resulted in an investigation, the manufacturer would immediately relinquish their responsibility and blame the cause to be related to the foreign module fitted.

There is NO WAY that a manufacturer would investigate a fault with a 20+ year old item like a fuseboard, so they would wash their hands before anything started.

Try getting an auto manufacturer to agree to a "fault" after the warranty runs out

 

[Sharpend]

There is NO WAY that a manufacturer would investigate a fault with a 20+ year old item like a fuseboard, so they would wash their hands before anything started.

Try getting an auto manufacturer to agree to a "fault" after the warranty runs out

I agree, but let’s say a legal investigation was brought by way of a fire, fatality etc then yes the manufacturer would wash their hands of all responsibility should an unknown Module be installed, it’s their perfect ticket out of blame, but any evidential paperwork of works carried out would land the spark in hot water to explain their actions??

 

[Murdoch]

I agree, but let’s say a legal investigation was brought by way of a fire, fatality etc then yes the manufacturer would wash their hands of all responsibility should an unknown Module be installed, it’s their perfect ticket out of blame, but any evidential paperwork of works carried out would land the spark in hot water to explain their actions??

what paper work ?

 

[Sharpend]

Customer quotes, certificates, part p notification etc.

 

[Murdoch]

Customer quotes, certificates, part p notification etc.

are often missing …..

 

[Sharpend]

Or not supplied in the first place!