Part P consultation results are out

[ivixxiv]

Changes to Part P (Electrical safety - Dwellings) of the Building Regulations in England: Consultation stage impact assessment - Planning, building and the environment - Department for Communities and Local Government

Option 3 has been decided upon, haven't had time to read it all but the main points are annual assesments are out to be replaced by "risk based assessments" (whatever that may mean), "minor" alterations to kitchen and outdoor circuits now become non notifiable and you'll now be able to sign off someone else's work (details to be decided upon)

In short they've done nothing, as usual

 

[ProDave]

Eh?

The consultation doesn't close until 27th April.

This government likes making conclusions before the consultation period has finished.

I wonder if this one will be challenged and ruled illegal?

 

[Andy™]

wonder how much extra scam registration will be for the ability to notify work of others?

and how do you know option 3?

 

[ivixxiv]

Eh?The consultation doesn't close until 27th April.

This government likes making conclusions before the consultation period has finished.

I wonder if this one will be challenged and ruled illegal?

Sorry my fault should have made the OP clearer and I'll amend my post.

This is the impact assesment but seeing how this things work before it will pretty much be as said imo, scams payout less for notification fees (more profit) plus get to charge more for this new fangled risk assessment and signing off peoples work

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:11 ----------

[quote name='Andy

 

[rugbymacc]

Summary: Analysis & Evidence Policy Option 3

Description: Retain Part P with changes

FULL ECONOMIC ASSESSMENT

Price Base Net Benefit (Present Value (PV)) (

 

[johninlondon1]

They quote the following "Other key non-monetised benefits by

 

[Bacon]

Amended

Changes to Part P (Electrical safety - Dwellings) of the Building Regulations in England: Consultation stage impact assessment - Planning, building and the environment - Department for Communities and Local Government

 

[Doc Hudson]

AmendedChanges to Part P (Electrical safety - Dwellings) of the Building Regulations in England: Consultation stage impact assessment - Planning, building and the environment - Department for Communities and Local Government

Already posted 1st feb, I have merged yours with the original thread.

Doc H.

 

[steptoe]

so?

WTF is happening then?

do we still need to be members of scams?

 

[philbas]

As far as I can see, only if you are working in a bathroom.

Anywhere else the DIY people have freedom to do what they want.

But the scams can charge you extra for to check the DIY work that wont be notified anyway.

Remmember, this is all a result of consultation with the industry and this is what we told them we want

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:49 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:42 ----------

Option four got lost somewhere

4) Make it mean something other than a money makeing scheme for people that don't actually do anything.

I think that was to expensive.

 

[NozSpark]

I think we ought to make our opinion known to the minister who wrote the report.

Andrew Stunell

 

[green-hornet]

Some very interesting reading, from what I understand and I can only speak for those who are members of the NICEIC on this, is that we as members were consulted and asked for our comments. Now it appears to me that some of our observations have been misinterpreted by those who are supposed to be acting for our benifit, and there is nothing new there.

What I was led to believe was that most contractors did not oppose the part p scheme, just its enforcement, any relaxation in the regulations would just spell disaster for everyone who is registered. The problem I see is that due to recent court cases, and the fact that BS7671 is not a statute law, you really do not need to be registered with anyone. All notifiable work can get lost in a system that is powerless to police, and open a flood gate for all those who are putting profit above safety.

We all talk about corgi and gas safe as a workable example, but from stories I have heard even this system is abused, but for some reason taken more seriously than the electrical trade.

The statistics for electrical safety in this country is above the european standard, but we still have frightening statistics that can be corrected by having all electrical work carried out to the standards set out in BS 7671 and other regulations that cover other works.

Building regulations have for a long time been flawed and have been tested in court on many occasions, I do not know the exact figures, but I would hazard a guess that succesful prosecutions are rare.

Unfortunately I have lost all hope with the scheme providers, it looks to an extent that they have sold their souls for monatary gains, and do not reflect what this industry needs.

I am actually scared at the lack of knowledge from some ( a minority) of domestic installers for instance, however they are at least trying and are on the radar, any changes detrimental to the protection of innocents, and the broad scale blind eye approach will have a dramatic effect on our trade, to the point of, as far as domestics go, there is no need for our trade to be involved in any process of its construction or maintenance.

 

[NozSpark]

I think we ought to make our opinion known to the minister who wrote the report.Andrew Stunell

I have just emailed him,, along with cc (ing) my local MP

 

[green-hornet]

Part P and the consultation process an open letter.

Whilst there is a need to review the building regulation part P, there appears to be a distinct lack in fully understanding the problems this regulation has imposed on the electrical industry.

As a member on one of the UK

 

[steptoe]

my tuppence worth,

make the Electrician Licenced , and not have the company registered,

or, if the company IS registered, make them liable to have the work carried out by a Licenced Electrician only,

I have some more thoughts on this exact process if anyone is interested.

 

[green-hornet]

my tuppence worth,make the Electrician Licenced , and not have the company registered,

or, if the company IS registered, make them liable to have the work carried out by a Licenced Electrician only,

I have some more thoughts on this exact process if anyone is interested.

I am, the letter I posted has not been delivered as yet!!!

 

[steptoe]

I like the gas safe way,

and , TBH, every other countries way of doing it,

the actual Electrician is Licenced, the registration number belongs to the spark,

NOT the company, we all know how the QS system can be abused.

Gas Safe doesnt allow this, and I dont know 1 single gas man that would go down a QS route!

have the spark licenced to do the work to a standard he has been assessed for,

ie, domestic, commercial, industrial, and whether or not this was single or 3 phase, obviously some of this would overlap,

Ive done some domestic 3p, and also some ind single phase,

but your level of competency would be on your card,

ie, domestic 1ph only,

com 3ph ,

dom 3 ph ,

ind 3 ph + areas A B C etc (TBC)

you could probably code the types of ticket to make it easier,

Im not trying to say a ind 3ph is better than a dom 1ph, we all know its a different set up,

but if we licence a spark for say works 1 2 & 3 then he is verified to work on dom , com , & ind,

then if we say he is licenced on codes 1 & 3 (easy number) he can work on single and 3 phase equipment, but would still be prohibited from 2phase or split phase installs!

summary,

a grade A1 spark would be a normal domestic spark working on single phase,

perhaps a grade B1 would be a domestic with outside(ie SWA etc) permitted.

is this making sense to anyone but me?

 

[Zeespark]

It is making sense Steps, almost like the grades on a driving licence for example?

AndyGuinness

 

[steptoe]

kinda Zee

but, and my big but is,

stop firms having the registration!

IMHO its this that is causing a lot of problems, once the responsibility is on the individual they start to realise the consequences more.

and, a lot more people will start to fail,

but that will be down to the scams, again, but I think follow up sparks will pull more stuff up once its their name going down.

 

[Zeespark]

Of course I agree with you Steps, but just one thing (not trying to start a fight, more a healthy debate), what if, as you used as an example, you were an A1 domestic sparks, and you needed to prove competency for your trade card to install an outside circuit in SWA for example?

Andy