Part P consultation results are out

[steptoe]

tough ****,

you cant do it,

say for instance you are a plumber and you want to move the gas cooker over a bit?

or the tiler wants to put some extra lights in the bathroom? (oh, forgot, he already does!)

you can do what is on your ticket and thats it Zee,

anything else and you loose it,

my SWA was only an example, but I feel a good one considering the amount of dodgy SWA terminations I see regularly.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:21 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:18 ----------

Of course I agree with you Steps, but just one thing (not trying to start a fight, more a healthy debate), what if, as you used as an example, you were an A1 domestic sparks, and you needed to prove competency for your trade card to install an outside circuit in SWA for example?Andy

AH, get you now,

well for your card you have to show competency,

so for an upgrade you simply notify that you are putting in a SWA and they will come and inspect it afterwards,

oh, and for your membership fees, you have the privilege of having any job inspected at random after you have submitted it and without your knowledge.

 

[Zeespark]

I was thinking along the route of hot tub/shed/garage in a domestic setting for the question I just asked you about Steps.

AndyGuinness

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 01:26 ---------- Previous post was made at 01:24 ----------

I don't have ANY issues with that type of system Steps, in fact I would wholeheartedly agree with it in principal.

AndyGuinness

 

[steptoe]

I was thinking along the route of hot tub/shed/garage in a domestic setting for the question I just asked you about Steps.

it then becomes out of the remit of an A1 cardholder, remember, he only registered to do a few extra sockets and some lights in the bathroom,

hes not even allowed to change the CU,

now for the next cunning part of my plan,

when the work is done and Mr spark has finished Mrs House logs on to the council website to register the job by classA1 Mr E Lectric for her new shower,

BOOM, Mr E Lectric isnt registered to do showers, He is in big trouble now.!

so, you cant bull the customer what you are registered to do, they can take your number and check it against your name and photo on a council website.

 

[Zeespark]

I see no issue with that in theory Steps, but for each definition, as a spark, I would want to know what I could and could not do domestically if that makes sense? Are you thinking along the lines of say, 1 part being lights? another socket outlet? etc? if so that's fine. I am just getting at what would be required of an electrician at each level if that makes sense?

AndyGuinness

 

[SteveT]

"We have assumed that, as a proportion of the falls since 2005, fatalities from electric shock would increase

by 20% and other electric shock and electrical fire accidents by 80%"

Surely anticipating an increase of 20% in fatalities and electrical fires to increase by 80% is a massive increase and surely those bereaved will not be happy about this, the fire service will not be too pleased with the extra call-outs, Insurance companys will be OK as they will just increase premiums again. I have never heard of changes in government policy that factored in increased fatalities.

John, I thinks you may have misunderstood this passage, the increases of 20% and 80% are ratios of 'The reductions since 2005' i.e. there will be an increase of around one fatality per year.

This is NOT the consultation, this is merely one of many documents to be considered and is an assesment of some suggested proposals.

 

[soulman]

i have had a very brief look through the document, I personally dont mind paying my money to the scams, I know the whole thing is load of tosh, but it sort of protects us from builders & the like because the work needs signed off. I personally wouldn't be happy signing anybodies work off ever &

 

[Smilers]

I agree with what your saying steps but who is going to pay for this assessment? Is it another bill we would have to pay yearly as the scam memberships are enough in my eyes! I cant imagine that the government would pay for an assessor so it would fall in our feet! It's hard enough to make money in this industry as some guests to the UK will rewire your house for

 

[a1]

Thanks SteveT, You saved me pointing that out.

Green-Hornet...

Whilst there is a need to review the building regulation part P, there appears to be a distinct lack in fully understanding the problems this regulation has imposed on the electrical industry.

As a member on the UK

 

[NozSpark]

Here is my reply from Andrew Stunell's office,,, I somehow don't think that he will be reading my email as I don't live in his constituency

Dear Mr. Evans*

Thank you for your email to Andrew Stunell, Member of Parliament for Hazel Grove.

MPs have to follow a strict Parliamentary protocol that they only correspond with their own constituents.* Therefore, I would be grateful if you could please provide your home address and Mr Stunell will then reply to you as soon as possible.

*

Your sincerely,

*

*

Janet Salmond

Caseworker for

Andrew Stunell MP

*

Whilst Andrew Stunell MP will treat as confidential any personal information which you pass on, he will allow staff and authorised volunteers to see it if this is needed to help and advise you.* The MP may pass all or some of the information to agencies, such as DWP, HMRC or Local Council if this is necessary to help with your case.* We may wish to write to you from time to time, to keep you informed on issues that you might find of interest.* Please let him know if you do not wish to be contacted for this purpose.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:41 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:4* ----------

.... And from my MP

Dear Mr Evans,Thank you for your email dated 5 February 2*12.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for keeping me informed and updated on this issue.

I *appreciate your concerns about electrical safety being compromised and hope the Minister listens to the points that you have made.

Yours sincerely,

Chris Ruane MP

For Vale of Clwyd

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:41 ----------

Ooooh, I forgot,, maybe I should send it to my AM?

 

[steptoe]

Andrew Stunell, Member of Parliament for Hazel Grove

where?

is that the Hazel Grove in Stockport?

 

[NozSpark]

Yup!

 

[steptoe]

OH, well near me then,

and, I'll bet I could take him to jobs in his own constituency that are bad!

must give him a look up and see what council he is on.

 

[NozSpark]

From what I can tell he's about 103

 

[Nicky Tesla]

kinda Zee

but, and my big but is,.........Have you got a big Butt steps:^O

Your Idea is ok, but remember when you went to join the JIB and they said you cannot be an electrician because you do not have "this" qualification. Well the same may happen here aswell.

Also this would be great for the training industry cos they will be able to charge a fortune for every little category you want added and these will all need updating every time something happens with the BS7671 standard. So be careful what you wish for.

 

[NozSpark]

Thats how gas works though

Nearly every different category of gas appliance has a different test and gas installers are only allowed to work on those types of appliances that they have passed the test for.

 

[philbas]

[quote name='Andy

 

[NozSpark]

TBH though,, do you recon any of it will be compliant?

 

[steptoe]

Nicky,

I never asked to join the JIB, they in fact told me over 20years ago I would never work in the UK again,

a couple of years ago they asked me if I wanted to join!

I politely refused.

the problem with the JIB is exactly the same as the scams, it started out right, but then turned into a money maker with some folks thinking they made the rules.

Noz, where is the article this idiot wrote?

Im going to try compile a list of countries that have licencing in place, it looks like we are one of the few industrialised nations that dont have that sort of system.

 

[NozSpark]

Weeeelllllll,

There is a link in the very first line of the first post in this thread

But if you missed that, or find it hard to follow, here you go

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/2063566.pdf

 

[ivixxiv]

Nicky,I never asked to join the JIB, they in fact told me over 20years ago I would never work in the UK again,

a couple of years ago they asked me if I wanted to join!

I politely refused.

the problem with the JIB is exactly the same as the scams, it started out right, but then turned into a money maker with some folks thinking they made the rules.

Noz, where is the article this idiot wrote?

Im going to try compile a list of countries that have licencing in place, it looks like we are one of the few industrialised nations that dont have that sort of system.

Totally agree, the whole things out of control now, Domestic Installers running about working on pretty much what they want after doing a 5 week course, or even worse just doing a 17th course.

I know you don't like JIB but at least they have standards to be graded (and yes I know time served sparks without NVQ3 have problems), as I said before only someone whose taken the JIB training route (2330, 17th, AM2, NVQ3) should be allowed to work on everything, a domestic installer should only be allowed to work on domestic full stop. As it makes a mockery of people doing proper training

Currently a householder couldn't give a **** if you've passed your AM2 or Joe Bloggs has passed his NICEIC 5 Day Domestic Course as they both call themselves electricians (one is and one isn't but they don't know the difference)

Any licenses scheme should also primarily be based on qualifications, and have a proper trade test for Part P scheme membership (AM2 would be nice but then they would have 90% less members)

Whilst i'm on a rant Approved Contractor status should be revised as well, they've managed to also **** that up by letting every man and his dog apply for it