PIR remedial advice.

[gselectrical]

If there is no overload then i would fit a motor protective circuit breaker, Siemens 3RV or Moeller PKZ would be my best optionLet me know the current and ill post the part numbers, if you want to know where to get them at a good price then let me know

Cheers pal

 

[Sidewinder]

Thing is it sounds like that it may not compily with several other "regs" not just 7671!

 

[Chr!s]

Canoeboy

If there is no overload then i would fit a motor protective circuit breaker, Siemens 3RV or Moeller PKZ would be my best option

Id be surprised if there was no motor protection, submersible pumps will have standards applied to them.

The 3RV is a three phase and i know it can be wired for single phase, though the point of using these is to try and match the thermal withstand curve of the motor with that of the breaker, now without that information using trip classes of ten upwards may still leave the motor unprotected.

The simple solution would be to examine one of the pumps and go from there

 

[gselectrical]

I'm on the job tomorrow. Shall look at each pump and let you know what I find.

Cheers

GS

 

[gselectrical]

Ok. got some details from the pumps earlier.

Most of them are 240V 0.8Kw submersible pumps. There does not appear to be any internal Thermal O/L protection.

The control boxes also dont seem to have any Thermal O/L protection within them.

There are 2 110v pumps

Pump 1= 110V 0.58kW

Pump 2= 110V P1=1.1KW, P2=0.85Kw

Theres a pic of one of the plates below and also one of the boxes (sorry not the best pic)

 

[Larnacaman]

That looks to me like a 240v sump pump, at least that's what it says on the pump spec plate !!!

 

[Chr!s]

GS

http://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/submersible_water_pumps/gse_range.pdf

I think you will find it has overload protection.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was made at 15:02 ----------

That looks to me like a 240v sump pump, at least that's what it says on the pump spec plate !!!

Agreed.

Are you sure the supply is 110 v centre tapped?

Could it be 230 v centre tapped?

Best check that voltage

Are all those components suitable for mounting on combustible material?

 

[gselectrical]

That looks to me like a 240v sump pump, at least that's what it says on the pump spec plate !!!

GShttp://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/submersible_water_pumps/gse_range.pdf

I think you will find it has overload protection.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was made at 15:02 ----------

Agreed.

Are you sure the supply is 110 v centre tapped?

Could it be 230 v centre tapped?

Best check that voltage

Are all those components suitable for mounting on combustible material?

That plate is one of the 240V pumps.

There are 2 110V pumps, the rest are 240V

The components are not suitable for mounting on combustible material. To be honest its a right bodge (as you can see from the picture). I have raised this issue with the person ordering the work.

Thanks for finding that Clarke manual plumber.

Looks like Thermal overload protection IS provided internally after all.

Thanks for the help on this one, as you can probably tell, i am far from "experienced" when it comes to motors and pumps.

Cheers. GS

 

[gselectrical]

Those (what look like) relays on the nice wooden backplate (panel!), if they are used to switch the pump and are not AC3 rated at the correct kW then they are not suitably for switching a motor

Thanks.

 

[gselectrical]

Decent photo of a control panel being commissioned todayJust for you to see what a small panel without a wooden backplate and spaghetti looks like

View attachment 1334

Thanks for that Canoe, appreciated. Very tidy panel installation that. Looks good. Whoever installed the "spaghetti junction and wooden backplate" clearly where by far not panel builders.

I can not help but feel that you believe I have had something to do with this installation? Its the first time I have ever worked at this site. I am only there to carry out remedial work on defects found by the insurance company. There are hundreds of aspects of the installation that need to be repaired or chaged. A lot of this has not even been mentioned within the PIR. I made the client aware of this before I started work. Once I have finished carrying out the remedial work I have been asked to do, I will write a letter informing the client of the parts of the installation I have identified as requiring attention.

Thank you for the help so far, Canoe.

GS

 

[Sidewinder]

Canoe,

The pic is of a grinder? More info please?...

Have done loads with grinders over the years.

Worked on service for a manuf, as prod eng @ a LARGE global user, and for control systems manuf supplying grinding m/c co.

Worked on Ferrari F1 cam shaft grinder, on Mercedes Ilmor F1 crank shaft grinder just to mention the two most high profile!

 

[Sidewinder]

Canoe,

Suds should ALWAYS stop before the wheel! For that very reason.

We used to use 42" dia wheels on the journal grinders & 36" on the cam lobe grinders.

They go seriously out of balance, especially when you have 6 of them on the same spindle if they get loaded with coolant!

What are the DC's btw?

Junk them and fit AC servos?

Just match the inertia, use epicyclic gearboxes if you need to!

You'll get MUCH better response.

A thou is a yard in grinding terms, we used to barrel crank pins by 0.003mm, yes 3 microns!

We would hold better than +/-0.008mm on diameter every part from first start up from cold.

Roundness & TIR would also be better than 0.01mm.

Brings back memories!

The co. I used to work for still build their beds from seasoned cast iron.

Lead time for a new machine is 18 months - 2 years to allow adequate seasoning on the bed casting.

This is why we could and they still do hold such good tolerances.

What make was that machine btw?

Would love to get back to that stuff!

Spent all day working on wood working machines, servicing a Tenoner, a Planer / Thicknesser & a Spindle Moulder, & then a Wadkin GD moulder, which had to be stripped to get the 2 vertical spindles out as they were not moving, all siezed up, all really boring mechanical stuff.

Got to go back tomorrow & Friday to rebuild the Moulder, finish its service, and then service a cross cut, table saw, calibrating sander, another Planer/Thicknesser, a morticer, a cross cut, a narrow bandsaw, pedestal drill, bench grinder, and a 36" resaw. Possibly a couple more too I have forgotten!

Damn shame is I have another customer with a CNC fault I am dying to get to! Now that's more interesting! Especially as I don't know what the control is yet!!!

 

[Sidewinder]

I can get you frameless AC servos, and pancake motors, with programmable drives!

Yes I have digressed a bit, not like this forum at all!

:coat :Blushing

 

[gselectrical]

Big 18inch wheel 3inches diameter, maybe bigger as didn't measure itTiming is crucial for ramp up and down as wheel needs to throw suds off or becomes out of balance and may explode

And according to the machine shop owner it grinds to better than a thou which is superior to any modern equivalent tin plate machine

Doing it's brother next month which is even more accurate and has DC motors on it rather than AC

It's a big cast iron machine around 1960's era

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:59 ----------

If I implied you had something to do with the panel, I'm sorry as wasn't my intention!

Its a home/diy job, any Decent sparky would not attach their name to it that's for sure!

Ok. Thanks

The "control boxes" are certanly a DIY job, perhaps I should have mentioned that when I started the thread.

I am very keen not to attach my name to it!

Regards

GS

 

[steptoe]

Ok. ThanksThe "control boxes" are certanly a DIY job, perhaps I should have mentioned that when I started the thread.

I am very keen not to attach my name to it!

Regards

GS

use my name if you want,

work is work for me just now...

 

[gselectrical]

use my name if you want,work is work for me just now...

Cheers Steps! lol