Reg number?

[Murdoch]

Hum ........... need some pointers chaps.

Scenario - plastic CU in under stairs cupboard

EICR done by "another" has given it a C2

Is there a clear reg number in the BBB?

Thanks

PS - yes I'm aware that the BPG4 suggests this is a C2

Thanks

 

[Sidney]

I'm on the understanding that under the stairs is classed as an escape route that's why it draws a C2. No clear reg number IIRC.

 

[OnOff]

421.1.201?

Then 422.2.2...

 

[Murdoch]

421.1.201?

Then 422.2.2...

Yup - but those would only warrant a C3 IMHO as the installation is a 16th!

 

[boltonsparky]

Listed in the NAPIT code breakers book as C3, only C2 if there are signs of thermal damage. They reference it to 421.1.201.

Also worth noting reg 651.2 NOTE 2, which would obviously depend on when it was installed.

 

[Evans Electric]

I was told by the assessor last year  that the big scarey   fire monster is  a plastic CU  under the stairs .....bursts into flames , wooden stairs on fire , children trapped  ..big NO NO . 

So I'm guessing at a C2 

 

[kerching]

What @boltonsparkysaid

C3........I'm NICEIC BUT I use the Napit Codebreakers book. Well worth the money

 

[Geoff1946]

Wooden stairways are supposed to be plasterboarded below for fire protection. Maybe a red herring as far as interpreting the regs are concerned, but relevant to the risk level.

 

[revjames]

it would be a C3 as far as I'm concerned as it was installed under previous regs and was deemed acceptable when installed after all its not retrospective is it?

 

[Andy™]

it would be a C3 as far as I'm concerned as it was installed under previous regs and was deemed acceptable when installed after all its not retrospective is it?

so going by the logic of it complied when installed, something wired to 1920 regulations and never touched since would be c3 and satisfactory?

 

[Murdoch]

so going by the logic of it complied when installed, something wired to 1920 regulations and never touched since would be c3 and satisfactory?

well ..... since the 17th AMD 3 , the IET have had 2 chances to clarify this 

and they’ve failed

so the C3 is ok then imho

 

[boltonsparky]

so going by the logic of it complied when installed, something wired to 1920 regulations and never touched since would be c3 and satisfactory?

Page 13 of the blue book the note by the HSE indicates that as does reg 651.2 Note 2.

If that wasn't the case there would be more electrical work than the country could handle every time a new edition was brought out, equally that's why I'm so narked by this new Landlord EICR government legislation farce stating installs must meet 18th edition, both from the point of view of being a spark and a landlord.

 

[Evans Electric]

new Landlord EICR government legislation farce stating installs must meet 18th edition, both from the point of view of being a spark and a landlord.

What would that mean in reality then  ....  I did an EICR  on a rental  two weeks ago  , it tested out fine , it was in excellent condition , bonding in place ,  Dual RCD board , perfectly acceptable ,  wired in Red & Black  which indicates the age  .

The only problem I found were two  ceiling roses  where the terminals had been ignored and connectors crammed in instead  :C     .

So to follow the guidance that it should be equal to the 18th  it would need rewiring in the colours complying with Europe  except we're not in Europe anymore ....anti arcing devices  and lightening strike  overcurrent doo - dahs fitted . 

Surely they can't bring in legislation for ALL rentals to be upgraded to the 18th .....lets face it , before the 5 years  I gave it is up  , we'll be on the 19th  so it will have to be done again .  

(  Having said that I am reminded that the  letting  agency used by the  owners insist on a test EVERY YEAR ...which is not the case )  

 

[kerching]

Just taken this from Gov.co.uk.

 

[Murdoch]

So to follow the guidance that it should be equal to the 18th  it would need rewiring in the colours complying with Europe  except we're not in Europe anymore ....anti arcing devices  and lightening strike  over current doo - dahs fitted . 

Surely they can't bring in legislation for ALL rentals to be upgraded to the 18th .....lets face it , before the 5 years  I gave it is up  , we'll be on the 19th  so it will have to be done again .  

(  Having said that I am reminded that the  letting  agency used by the  owners insist on a test EVERY YEAR ...which is not the case )  

I'm not sure thats how its worded - I think it says inspected to the 18th edition - so C3's will be very common -

So now we are now faced with a dilemma

EICR's for landlords need to be inspected to the 18th edition

All other EICR's need to be inspected to the 18th Edition AMD 1 - until 18th edition AMD2 comes out

I can't see the HOC updating their legislation each time the IET fiddles with BS 7671 so it'll be a mess  for the younger people on here to struggle with 

 

[boltonsparky]

What would that mean in reality then  ....  I did an EICR  on a rental  two weeks ago  , it tested out fine , it was in excellent condition , bonding in place ,  Dual RCD board , perfectly acceptable ,  wired in Red & Black  which indicates the age  .

The only problem I found were two  ceiling roses  where the terminals had been ignored and connectors crammed in instead  :C     .

So to follow the guidance that it should be equal to the 18th  it would need rewiring in the colours complying with Europe  except we're not in Europe anymore ....anti arcing devices  and lightening strike  overcurrent doo - dahs fitted . 

Surely they can't bring in legislation for ALL rentals to be upgraded to the 18th .....lets face it , before the 5 years  I gave it is up  , we'll be on the 19th  so it will have to be done again .  

(  Having said that I am reminded that the  letting  agency used by the  owners insist on a test EVERY YEAR ...which is not the case )  

Thankfully they've updated the legislation, I've looked again following @kerching post. The new version is much better worded and includes the bit about the existing installations. The original one stated that all rented properties must be tested to and comply with the 18th edition of BS7671 which would mean upgrading every rental property in the UK.

It might just be a case of the grass is greener on the other side but the gas lot seem to have it all sorted but everything electrical they try to bring in or enforce turns into a confusing mess. 

 

[kerching]

An ill thought out piece of legislation created by a bunch of self congratulatory cretins who's main tenet is self promotion. Did they all get the £10k that they were due to buy laptops so they can work,from home?

just having to buy my own laptop with my own money as opposed to government ministers having to buy their own laptop with OUR money

 

[boltonsparky]

Agreed. All that will happen is the good landlords will carry on as they were making sure their properties are safe for their tenants while the dodgy ones will get some equally dodgy EICR certificate done for £40 where they won't even get off their horse to look at the property, and the installation will be no safer for the tenant than it was before the legislation was brought in. As a result of that they'll just bring in another money making scheme or register or cost or hoop for the legitimate sparks and landlords to jump through while the bottom feeders of the rental and spark world carry on regardless.

It all sounds very familiar.... back to a time in 2005 when a certain part of the building regs came into force.

 

[Murdoch]

TBH they’ve over complicated matters.

 All they needed was mandatory EICRs done every 5 years, to latest version of BS 7671

 copy’s to landlord, tenant, letting agency and local council

 end of

 

[Risteard]

Page 13 of the blue book the note by the HSE indicates that as does reg 651.2 Note 2.

If that wasn't the case there would be more electrical work than the country could handle every time a new edition was brought out, equally that's why I'm so narked by this new Landlord EICR government legislation farce stating installs must meet 18th edition, both from the point of view of being a spark and a landlord.

That's not what is written though (nor is it what has ever been written). It states that it may not necessarily be unsafe or require upgrading - it doesn't definitively state that it is safe and doesn't require upgrading. In other words due consideration needs to be given to the issues.

Fused neutrals were once permitted but are now illegal.