Regs for fitting fused spurs.

[clive sorts]

Hi all

Sorry if I am posting in wrong section.

I run an NSI Security systems installation company in Middx. For the last 2-3 years we have used Electricians to fit our fused spurs for our alarm & CCTV installations.

Can someone please tell me the Regs for fitting spurs. I want to add a note in the employees contracts that they cannot install fused spurs.

Thank you

clive sorts

 

[Andy™]

Can someone please tell me the Regs for fitting spurs.

BS7671 for a start.

too many things to say, so ask if you want details of something more specific

 

[Apache]

Hello and Welcome Clive. All Sorts welcome here

 

[clive sorts]

Hi

Thank you for your replies.

andyc, I realise it is a long answer, would you say in a nutshell that it is illegall for your average security Engineer to fit a 230 volt fused spur to an existing electrical system ?

From what I have read a " competent person " means having experience of electrical installations , have sufficient test equipment, etc..

Thank you

clive sorts

 

[Andy™]

HiThank you for your replies.

andyc, I realise it is a long answer, would you say in a nutshell that it is illegall for your average security Engineer to fit a 230 volt fused spur to an existing electrical system ?

From what I have read a " competent person " means having experience of electrical installations , have sufficient test equipment, etc..

Thank you

clive sorts

depends on what your engineers have trained to do. to carry out electrical work, you need to be competent. 2382/2391 would be a good start, or even better would be an apprenticeship. they will need to have a good knowledge of BS7671. If its in a house, they will probably need to be part P reg'd if they install new circuits or work in special locations (kitchens etc). All work will require testing, and they would need test kits to do that, and know how to fill in test certificates

 

[patspark]

eal domestic electrical installer wich is a level 2 qualification my cat could pass

then regester with a scheme limited scope .

now when i was a boy oh lets not go there

 

[Andy™]

eal domestic electrical installer wich is a level 2 qualification my cat could passthen regester with a scheme limited scope .

just what we need. cats doing electrical work. at least they have claws for stripping cable

 

[patspark]

just what we need. cats doing electrical work. at least they have claws for stripping cable

i have 3 cats and the dumbest is smarter than the guys i know who done part p it is a joke

 

[Andy™]

maybe we should have some kind of building regs to stop joiners/kitchen fitters/cats doing electrical work. or is it too late for that?!

 

[patspark]

maybe we should have some kind of building regs to stop joiners/kitchen fitters/cats doing electrical work. or is it too late for that?!

its to late the game is knackerd 30 years in and i still love the job

but with everyone and his cat jumping on thge part p band wagon

i will be 50 on monday and i am looking at jobs in the falklands, afganistan

and holland jobs where part p does not exist

 

[Mark2spark]

@ Clive sorts

Something along the lines of:

Following an incident where a customer received a non fatal electric shock, employees are advised that anyone unable to display a level of competence as defined in the Electricity at Work Regulations should NOT take it upon themselves to install any type of electrical point without prior permission of your supervisior.

Anyone undertaking the installation of such electrical points will be required to supply the appropriate Electrical Installation Certificate or Minor Works Certificate as detailed in BS7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations, and provide documentary evidence of their competence to complete said works.

Seperately purchased Public Liability Insurance and Professional Indemnity Insurance would also be advised.

Thank you for your co-operation.

edit for spealing lol

 

[D Brennan]

i have 3 cats and the dumbest is smarter than the guys i know who done part p it is a joke

yep your right it is!!

 

[binky]

I've seen many poorly fitted FCUs by alarm fitters, plumbers etc etc. Its not that its particularly hard to do, but you strictly speaking need to be able to test the circuit you are tapping into to show its safe to modify, and should issue Minor Works Certificate afterwards. To be fully legal employ a spark on the books and train them up for CCTV - cover your butt both ways and adds potential for further works to old electrics.

 

[Evans Electric]

Another point to consider is the dreaded H&S , can an employer ask an untrained employee to mess around with mains voltage electrics ? ( I have to avoid using the euro-term of low voltage electrics because most sane people would think that alarm voltage is also low) (Climbing off soap-box)

Does your liability ins. cover for it ?

Deke

 

[green-hornet]

My answer would be at all times cover your ass!

Any person can do electrical work providing it is carried out to the required standards and regulations.

The regulations are a minefield for most inexperianced people.

You have to be competant, a definition of this is found in all regulations books.

The circuit will need to be tested an verified that it can take the extra load, a certificate for minor works or a certificate for a new circuit would have to be issued.

Most cctv I have done all equipment like the power supply unit and the dvr is connected by means of a kettle lead, linked to the alarm system via normal alarm cable., But I am no expert in the field. If so there is nothing wrong with just plugging it into the nearest double socket.Thats the diffence between "hard wired" (electrician) or "plugin" (anyone).

 

[clive sorts]

Hi all

Thank you all for your very helpful replies.

The info you have written confirms my thoughts that we are doing the right thing by using Electical sub contractors to fit our spurs. The guys I employ are strictly " Security Engineers ", some with NVQ & older guys who have learn't on the job.

Regards

clive sorts

 

[batty]

Hello Clive welcome to the forum.

Batty

 

[Gforce]

Another point to consider is the dreaded H&S , can an employer ask an untrained employee to mess around with mains voltage electrics ? ( I have to avoid using the euro-term of low voltage electrics because most sane people would think that alarm voltage is also low) (Climbing off soap-box)Does your liability ins. cover for it ?

Deke

Didnt I see in 17th edition that voltage upto 1000volts is constituted as low voltage

 

[Apache]

Didnt I see in 17th edition that voltage upto 1000volts is constituted as low voltage

yes

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

HiThank you for your replies.

andyc, I realise it is a long answer, would you say in a nutshell that it is illegall for your average security Engineer to fit a 230 volt fused spur to an existing electrical system ?

From what I have read a " competent person " means having experience of electrical installations , have sufficient test equipment, etc..

Thank you

clive sorts

Hello clive...

welcome to the forum Guiness Drink

just been reading through the thread.. and

I don't think any actually directly answered this question, so just to clarify.

NO it is NOT illegal for a non qualified person to add a fused spur onto an electrical circuit.

BS7671 wiring regs is guidance for good practise NOT a statutory document.

Part P building regulation is a statutory document..

but that applies to work in Kitchens, bathrooms, gardens, new circuits, new fuse box & similar.

Your "average" alarm system on fused spur, connected to an existing circuit, in the cupboard under the stairs can quite legally be wired up by anyone!

even the Spanish exchange student, who is baby sitting the children!!! :|

But as Deke said ...

You as an employer would have statutory obligation under H&S @ work,

thus you cannot insist you staff install a fused spur unless they are suitably qualified & trained.

This would most likely be someone of sufficient knowledge to correctly complete a "minor works" electrical certificate in accordance with BS7671, and have a suitably calibrated test meter to verify the work is safe.

Another option you may want to consider is giving the customer a standard letter, advising them to organise the installation of a fused spur within 300mm of where the Alarm is due to be installed.

Recommend they use an approved contractor such as a member of:-

NICEIC, ELECSA, ECA, BSI etc..

& if they do-not provide a spur give a standard value to cover the cost,, (e.g.