Signing Off On Diy

[Gkinghrn]

In the grand scheme of things, you don't really have any. Yes I gather you can wield a screwdriver but as I said above, you have no idea of anything outside of which way to turn the screws to tighten the terminals up. If you really did know your limitations you I find it highly unlikely that you would do any electrical work at all.

completely rude , Ill informed as you know zero about me beyond what you surmise from a few Internet posts , incorrect and disappointing. You are free to comment on my posts but unless it's constructive I would rather you didn't bother. Sorry but if this is how new folk are welcomed here its not a great experience so far...

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks Dave - there is no loft insulation here ..its an odd design to some extent but this is the only room with no loft insulation above it - i suspect it was too cramped for the insulators to get into and they couldn't be bothered crawling in.

LED's would be the preferred choice.

If you think you may be going to insulate the loft area later it may be wise to fit some of these, or a similar product. http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-downlight-insulation-guard-220mm/97932

Doc H.

 

[ProDave]

Thanks again to those who responded .

The intention is to take my single bedroom light and replace it with a number of recessed down lighters. So an alteration/extension to an existing circuit is how I would describe it

So take that one single lighting circuit/rose and extend it by adding more lights to it. Nothing more. I'm not adding any new discrete circuits or anything. Straight forward.

When you come to look at it, you may find the wiring in the existing light is a bit more than just 2 wires connecting to the light.  If so before you disconnect anything come and ask for some more advice.

 

[Gkinghrn]

Thanks Dave and Doc

 

[Doc Hudson]

completely rude , Ill informed as you know zero about me beyond what you surmise from a few Internet posts , incorrect and disappointing. You are free to comment on my posts but unless it's constructive I would rather you didn't bother. Sorry but if this is how new folk are welcomed here its not a great experience so far...

Unfortunately there is a small minority of "electricians" on all forums who think that DIY work should be banned, despite the fact that it is still perfectly legal and that BS7671 wiring regulations is NON statutory, (which they should understand if they were as competent as they claim to be). Often these same people do like to post opinions as much as possible, Please do not let the minority of members put you off the forum as a whole. If you sift through the chaff you will get some accurate and helpful information. You can also go into your personal settings and select ignore preference to add members names so that you do not see their posts. As a general rule the forum tries to be as open to as many members as possible and only uses banning people as a last resort. Because It is also true that despite some members repeated soap box chants about DIY'ers should call a professional, on other topics they often input some valuable content. (they just have a pet hate of anyone doing any work in their own homes)

Doc H.

 

[Lurch]

Unfortunately there is a small minority of "electricians" on all forums who think that DIY work should be banned, despite the fact that it is still perfectly legal and that BS7671 wiring regulations is NON statutory, (which they should understand if they were as competent as they claim to be). Often these same people do like to post opinions as much as possible, Please do not let the minority of members put you off the forum as a whole. If you sift through the chaff you will get some accurate and helpful information. You can also go into your personal settings and select ignore preference to add members names so that you do not see their posts. As a general rule the forum tries to be as open to as many members as possible and only uses banning people as a last resort. Because It is also true that despite some members repeated soap box chants about DIY'ers should call a professional, on other topics they often input some valuable content. (they just have a pet hate of anyone doing any work in their own homes)

If you would have read any of my posts you would see that I at no point said DIY should be banned. I have said several times why I have expressed the opinions that I have and how I have arrived at the conclusions that I have formed my opinions with. I could not really care less whether J. Bloggs does or doesn't do dodgy electrical work, I am also not really bothered if they get all uppity and suddenly think they know more than me and are in a better position to tell me about how good they are.

I also do not appreciate being called an "electrician" by some random unknown on the internet who will not reveal what he or she does or does not do. If you are going to also write derogatory posts targeted at fellow members you really should get your facts right being a moderator.

 

[Apache]

Apache..... If it's so easy and straight forward then,,,, why do many DIYers make such a balls of it???

You only see the people who mess up. Those of us (like me) do a careful job and have no problems!!

I've never had to call an electrician out to get me out of hot water. I am under your radar with all the other decent DIYers.

 

[Doc Hudson]

If you would have read any of my posts you would see that I at no point said DIY should be banned. I have said several times why I have expressed the opinions that I have and how I have arrived at the conclusions that I have formed my opinions with. I could not really care less whether J. Bloggs does or doesn't do dodgy electrical work, I am also not really bothered if they get all uppity and suddenly think they know more than me and are in a better position to tell me about how good they are.

I also do not appreciate being called an "electrician" by some random unknown on the internet who will not reveal what he or she does or does not do. If you are going to also write derogatory posts targeted at fellow members you really should get your facts right being a moderator.

If you read my post you would see that at no point have mentioned anyone by name. Nobody has said anyone is better than anyone else, Purely replying to the OP about an observation of the facts that they have made about some replies made to their posts. Maybe it is just new members who we also know very little about that are fair game for others to make derogatory remarks to about their ability's or not. Not the best way to encourage forum traffic and to help it grow.

Doc H.

 

[steptoe]

Apache,

Not being disrespectful, as I'm sure I've said before, I do admire your ability and knowledge,

But, you need to be a bit above average intelligence to be a cow poker,

Not everyone is in that league,

Even fewer DIYers possess the test equipment you have, iirc you have the baby brother meter from mine,  that's speaks volumes in itself

And, you understand how to use it

Most DIYers have at most a neon (that they probably misunderstand how to use properly),  and very unlikely they have any form of half reliable multimeter/continuity tester

Even the best normal DIYer will get it wrong on occasion, the problem is, when,  if ever, they realise it's wrong it will probably too late to save a fatality. 

 

[Lurch]

If you read my post you would see that at no point have mentioned anyone by name.

I can read between the lines.

The OP is obviously more than capable as he says he is good at electrics so that is all that matters.

 

[steptoe]

I'm good at building bike engines,

Give me a call Mr Rossi,  

 

[NozSpark]

You only see the people who mess up. Those of us (like me) do a careful job and have no problems!!

I've never had to call an electrician out to get me out of hot water. I am under your radar with all the other decent DIYers.

That's not quite true.... I have seen many very good DIY work,,, however none of them have the test equipment to ensure that the work that they have done is safe.... in that respect you and Apprentice are IMHO quite unique

and I agree that there are many DIYers that are under our radar,,,, it doesn't meant that any of it is any good

 

[Doc Hudson]

What we need is a few more members who are good at building forums:-  More helpful = More members = More traffic = More easy to get sponsors = More secure & better forum. A reasonable proportion of us are familiar with the original owner and the new owners who pay the bills to keep this forum running. Its not rocket science, if every DIY question is snubbed and turned away that only leaves supposed competent people to talk about the good old days, how bad Part-P is, How rubbish NIC/ELECSA/NAPPITT&co are etc. Because competent people surely don't have questions about anything otherwise they wouldn't be competent either by the same assumption that DIY people shouldn't do anything if they have to ask a question.

Doc H.

I'm good at building bike engines,

Give me a call Mr Rossi,  

Wasn't he in Status Quo?

 

[steptoe]

That was his uncle.  

 

[Apache]

however none of them have the test equipment to ensure that the work that they have done is safe.

How often have you tested YOUR work and found that what YOU have done has made the installation less safe?

I don't doubt that you will pick up faults in your testing. Many of those would be pre-existing faults that the DIY work may not have picked up, but has not made things any more dangerous.

 

[steptoe]

The point being Apache,

You can test and know that what you have done is safe,

You have good continuity, Zs is good, etc, all connections are sound,

How does the average DIYer do that,? 

 

[Apache]

The point being Apache,

You can test and know that what you have done is safe,

You have good continuity, Zs is good, etc, all connections are sound,

How does the average DIYer do that,? 

They don't. I wouldn't if I changed a light fitting. If I did something more major then I would (I tested the submain to my shed when I replaced the cable 2.5mm T&E for 10mm SWA).

The majority of DIY work is swapping light fittings and faceplates. Would you get the meter out every time? Honestly?

 

[steptoe]

Honest answer,

Yes,

Zs and RCD time as minimum, 

But,

I am, allegedly, meant to be a professional, it would be negligent of me not to. 

The perfect example I thinkwould be the average DIYer changing a normal pendant for a fancy metal fitting,

The cpc is there, but for some reason someone has cut it off at another fitting,

How would the average DIYer know that,? 

 

[Lurch]

I don't doubt that you will pick up faults in your testing. Many of those would be pre-existing faults that the DIY work may not have picked up, but has not made things any more dangerous.

It is more likely for DIY work to introduce faults, some of which would not get picked up on inspection and test anyway and would be issues with selection and erection which would not be an issue when the installation was done by a professional in the first place. Regardless of how the faults were introduced it is a false sense of security with the DIY mentality as "it's not on fire so it must be safe" is not appropriate really, especially when you may be introducing potentially lethal faults with innocent DIY work which in itself could look perfectly good after following the Wickes information sheet but may be completely wrong and dangerous due to a lack of understanding what is being done and why or exposing existing faults on a dangerous installation.

Your argument seems to be that if the test results are pass then why bother.

 

[Apache]

The cpc is there, but for some reason someone has cut it off at another fitting,

How would the average DIYer know that,? 

They wouldn't. If the property is protected by a 30mA RCD then the lack of  CPC is less critical - no?

It is more likely for DIY work to introduce faults, some of which would not get picked up on inspection and test anyway and would be issues with selection and erection which would not be an issue when the installation was done by a professional in the first place. Regardless of how the faults were introduced it is a false sense of security with the DIY mentality as "it's not on fire so it must be safe" is not appropriate really, especially when you may be introducing potentially lethal faults with innocent DIY work which in itself could look perfectly good after following the Wickes information sheet but may be completely wrong and dangerous due to a lack of understanding what is being done and why or exposing existing faults on a dangerous installation.

Your argument seems to be that if the test results are pass then why bother.

I've seen some shocking work by a NICEIC AC! There is a thread on here somewhere regarding being unable to 'pass' an EICR (he called it a PIR after the name changed) unless he fitted a 30mA RCD in front of the existing 100mA. He fitted it sideways. There is no discrimination. There is no sticker saying multiple colour cable in the surgery. He missed 2 cracked socket faceplates. No observations, no codes etc.

I was in an awkward position as I wasn't the client (old boss was when we bought the practice). Made him squirm when I clearly knew what some of the terms meant. He went away to ring the NICEIC helpline to confirm he couldn't 'pass' the installation without installing the 30mA - he confirmed that was what they told him.......

It's not just DIYers who are crap.

My argument is predicated that changing an accessory doesn't necessarily make the installation any less safe, even if there was a pre-existing fault there that was not picked up.