TT & Amd 3

[shanky887614]

Those clamps are after sales products, most board manufacturers will be supplying them.

The regulation uses the word enclosed, a metal CU without a lid would not be defined as enclosed.

You can still use plastic consumer units, the majority of CU's in domestics are under the stairs, if this compartment was fire lined and had a fire door  then plastic can be used. A surface mounted GRP meter cupboard could be used and comply with the regulations, so there are many options available to comply.

I would envisage new amendments coming over the next year, some will apply to the manufacturer and others to do with building control.

One such amendment to building control would be positioning of automatic fire detection (smoke alarms) within 2.5m of any CU.

I know people go on about torque settings and the like, torque is an exact science and is proven by mathematical formula. What it does do is give a known factor that is neither loose nor over tight. Using a torque screwdriver shows you have complied with the manufacturer instructions, and shown due diligence.

In the future I could see meter tails being made far more flexible than they are at present. This would remove a known problem of stress imposed on the main connections. Perhaps even boards supplied with meter tails already connected into a more permanent fixing?

All speculation I know but be prepared for new amendments, they will come.

can you get double insulated tri-rated? it would be nice for larger installs (or insulated and sheathed rather)

 

[Manator]

Yes it is made and available. It has almost always been used for panel building and the like but the sizes I know of go up to 95mm.

 

[Rob.]

Yes it is made and available. It has almost always been used for panel building and the like but the sizes I know of go up to 95mm.

It's BS6195, we use it quite often in panel builds when we need over 16mm as it has a tighter bending radius than tri rated, and is far more flexible and easier to use. 

Can get it all the way up to 400mm

http://www.batt.co.uk/upload/files/type4c-6001000vsinglecoreeprcspinsulationtobs6195currentratingstablebec101_1219687759.pdf

 

[Manator]

Hi Rob, nice to see you here.

 

[Sidewinder]

Rob,

That Batt link isn't it for ordinary tri rated rather than insulated & sheathed with a class 5 conductor?

 

[Rob.]

Rob,

That Batt link isn't it for ordinary tri rated rather than insulated & sheathed with a class 5 conductor?

The first table is BEC100, the one below, BEC101 is insulated and sheathed (Coil end)

 

[Essex1]

Those clamps are after sales products, most board manufacturers will be supplying them.

The regulation uses the word enclosed, a metal CU without a lid would not be defined as enclosed.

You can still use plastic consumer units, the majority of CU's in domestics are under the stairs, if this compartment was fire lined and had a fire door  then plastic can be used. A surface mounted GRP meter cupboard could be used and comply with the regulations, so there are many options available to comply.

I would envisage new amendments coming over the next year, some will apply to the manufacturer and others to do with building control.

One such amendment to building control would be positioning of automatic fire detection (smoke alarms) within 2.5m of any CU.

I know people go on about torque settings and the like, torque is an exact science and is proven by mathematical formula. What it does do is give a known factor that is neither loose nor over tight. Using a torque screwdriver shows you have complied with the manufacturer instructions, and shown due diligence.

In the future I could see meter tails being made far more flexible than they are at present. This would remove a known problem of stress imposed on the main connections. Perhaps even boards supplied with meter tails already connected into a more permanent fixing?

All speculation I know but be prepared for new amendments, they will come.

I would be very surprised if a fire boarded room would pass as an 'enclosure'.  So what you are saying is that a CU in a kitchen can be plastic as kitchens should be fire boarded?  I do not think this is correct.  I think the regulation is there to prevent CUs spreading fires to combustible material.  A fire boarded room/cupboard could still be filled up with coats, jackets etc....

 

[Sidewinder]

Essex,

Kitchens don't need to be fire boarded.

A "normal" say 2 storey dwelling house for a single family unit is a single fire compartment.

However, if you install another say 60 min fire compartment within this then there should be no reason not to use plastic regardless of the fire load.

The compartment would give 60 minutes fire protection.

Noting that it is only a 30 minute window IIRC that both the "metal boards" & "metal fixings" are trying to achieve.

 

[Manator]

The regulation is very simple, enclosed is an all encompassing word, a kitchen would not be classed as an enclosure however a small space under the stairs will, definition from buildings and use would never class this space as a room, whereas a kitchen would.

The regulation is also designed to contain a fire, not prevent it. The enclosure everyone assumes has to be close to, or built around, the consumer unit, may be the intention of the regulation but would not omit a fire compartment.

 

[Sidewinder]

The first table is BEC100, the one below, BEC101 is insulated and sheathed (Coil end)

Right I see what you mean now!

Thanks.

 

[NozSpark]

The regulation is very simple, enclosed is an all encompassing word, a kitchen would not be classed as an enclosure however a small space under the stairs will, definition from buildings and use would never class this space as a room, whereas a kitchen would.

The regulation is also designed to contain a fire, not prevent it. The enclosure everyone assumes has to be close to, or built around, the consumer unit, may be the intention of the regulation but would not omit a fire compartment.

However that fire compartment must not be part of a fire escape route,,,,and IMHO would never be an entire room

 

[kerching]

Pretty certain i have some double covered 400mm tri rated in the shed somewhere...may struggle getting in an REC2 though. Meter monkey will be ok though...just give it a haircut as usual

 

[Evans Electric]

The trouble with these committee decisions to update Regs etc  is they are presumably made up of bods with no practical experience , just a company car and a suit with a highly polished rear end   ( Not swearing  Boss)  .

I replaced a board today , meter tails were the usual copper like tempered steel , could hardly bend the stuff ...small box terminal with no depth , tightened to a 1000 newton tonnes per sq centimetre .....set the tails  ready to go in the meter ...re-check connections  & lifted both tails out of the main switch  .    So a combination of hardened copper & poor box terminals & not re-checking  seems to be the problem  ... not plastic enclosures.

A similar thing occurred when the Metric Committee  dumped stranded 7/.029 T&E  for solid core 2.5mm .   

 

[Manator]

However that fire compartment must not be part of a fire escape route,,,,and IMHO would never be an entire room

I know where your coming from, however under the stairs would not constitute a room. There is nothing within the regulation that confines, or defines the size of enclosure. It is also worth noting that all existing consumer units so far fitted do not need to be changed.

If the space under the stairs was fire rated to 60m as for an escape route, there is no reason why a plastic consumer unit could not be fitted.

I have done a lot of research into this amendment and ruffled a few feathers in the process with my views, with emails from Emma Clancy and Tim Bernstead amongst others.

I will be in a position shortly to answer some good questions, and lay to rest some myths.

 

[steptoe]

I'm going to line under my stairs with 1" steel coated with kevlar,  and spray it with some Nomex,

and fit a 6" reinforced steel timelock door on that I got from Hatton Garden,

D'ya think that would keep them happy,? 

 

[Andy™]

dont forget to line it with asbestos

 

[NozSpark]

and the BCF fire supresant system

 

[OnOff]

I'm looking for a DIN rail mounting, single module, wireless interlinked smoke/heat/CO2 alarm that'll fit in a board..... :tongue in cheek

 

[Manator]

I'm looking for a DIN rail mounting, single module, wireless interlinked smoke/heat/CO2 alarm that'll fit in a board..... :tongue in cheek

Its almost there funnily enough. In fact some are already marketed although I do have my doubts.

 

[OnOff]

Its almost there funnily enough. In fact some are already marketed although I do have my doubts.

The only ones I've seen are S****.....