Eicr copper showing as it enters pendant comnection

[SparkyQuestions]

So were your previous company an advocate of live working???

No one should remove any cover or open any accessory exposing any live part without first safely isolating the source of supply.

If someone chose to take a lamp out of a lamp holder there are a pair of conductive parts visible.. and with several lamp types enough space to poke a finger in if you were daft enough to do so!

With all normal covers in place, if all cable termination live parts are inaccessible, I cannot see how there can be any potential or immediate danger???

Where did you get this from have you ever heard of a magical thing called a dead test very cool. I was performing the cool trick of a R1R2 and while i do this i do a visual inspection .

I was simply saying if for say copper was showing in a light terminal and someone was to remove it he would argue they could get shocked as the genreal public who dont know what there doing and seem to do wonderfull things to endanger them self may touch it. I just said you could say that about anything as for say a cooker plate where the connections are exposed on removal if you dont know what your doing you could quite easily zap yourself. Or even better from your example if they decided to take a bulb out and jam there finger into the adapter they would get a shock.


No one ever mentioned working live so go back to the otherside of the fence and shhhh

 

[Fleeting]

If someone decides to remove a barrier while it is still live, well that is their lookout not your problem. I presume your question relates to a plastic pendant holder, is it poorly terminated or has stress and heat resulted in the copper conductor being exposed.

 

[ProDave]

I was about to say if you are bothered by a bit of copper visible inside a termination box, what is your take on a BC or ES lamp holder, where without any tools the user could remove the lamp and then live parts are accessible to touch without the use of any tools.

 

[SparkyQuestions]

Would need to see a picture to cast an opinion. Make a decision it isn't relevant what other electricians say it is your opinion based on engineering judgement.
I am not a tutor.

Mentor/tutor i made my opinion but it started abit of a hussle and bussle at work and i was just interested on what people thought. If you read the original question i didnt say what is the answer to this i simply asked for opinions. As im always interested in what people think espically when it comes to things like EICRS or condition reports as everyone judges things differently and somtimes other peoples judgement cause people to think and maybe rethink.

I doubt every single person you ve ever met has had the same opinion on everything in the electrcial trade.

 

[SparkyQuestions]

If someone decides to remove a barrier while it is still live, well that is their lookout not your problem. I presume your question relates to a plastic pendant holder, is it poorly terminated or has stress and heat resulted in the copper conductor being exposed.

Just bad termination no stress or anything. I just wandered what people thought on the matter seemed to cause abit of a rucus between the testing lads where i work

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Where did you get this from have you ever heard of a magical thing called a dead test very cool. I was performing the cool trick of a R1R2 and while i do this i do a visual inspection .

I was simply saying if for say copper was showing in a light terminal and someone was to remove it he would argue they could get shocked as the genreal public who dont know what there doing and seem to do wonderfull things to endanger them self may touch it. I just said you could say that about anything as for say a cooker plate where the connections are exposed on removal if you dont know what your doing you could quite easily zap yourself. Or even better from your example if they decided to take a bulb out and jam there finger into the adapter they would get a shock.


No one ever mentioned working live so go back to the otherside of the fence and shhhh

No idea why you are now talking about dead testing R1+R2...??

As you were previously suggesting that a termination at a light fitting could be considered as a code C2 during an EICR... Even though the cover is on and there are NO exposed live parts to present any immediate or potential danger to users under normal operation??

And somehow implied that your previous employer also consider this a C2??

Yet if the covers are on as I tried to point out under normal operation there cannot be any danger UNLESS someone did decide to do live working!

An EICR is NOT about thinking of what the general public may or may not do, or every possible permutation of daft thing a user may try and do.... Otherwise everything could be a danger!!!

You should be inspecting and testing an installation for compliance with the current edition of BS7671 and to assess if it is satisfactory or unsatisfactory for continued use. And as a C2 is Unsatisfactory... I would be very interested to hear how on earth anyone could justify C2 for a termination with a bit of bad workmanship that is not accessible to touch inside an insulated enclosure.

If this is causing a bit of a rucus.. sounds like a few people do not understand the purpose of an EICR?

 

[Chewbacca]

Ok stormtroopers, calm down.

 

[Chewbacca]

Just bad termination no stress or anything. I just wandered what people thought on the matter seemed to cause abit of a rucus between the testing lads where i work

Causing a rucus here too. No one should be accessing a light fitting who isn't competent, and safe isolation is a major part of our yearly assessments. You need tools to open a light fitting, so have a look about compliance of such things in BS7671, but ponder the consumer unit, lots of nasty things in those, but again, unaccessible without tools. Have a think, and post your musings for discussion. You will find the members of this forum respond better when presented with a thought through argument, and as they decades of experience, are worth listening to even when not necessarily being very diplomatic

 

[mort2376]

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/1200/best-practice-guide-4-issue-4.pdf

 

[mort2376]

That is the latest eicr guidance. This is what all schemes are supposed to work to. Even though in their own books they may state differently.

Your never going to be able to provide an answer for every item your going to find out there.

IMHO your the skilled person doing the report, if you think its a particular code and can provide a reason for it then that's what it is.

 

[BenCos18]

You need tools to open a light fitting

Not always
I know the ones at home can just unscrew off and expose the terminals without any kind of tool

 

[kerching]

Not always
I know the ones at home can just unscrew off and expose the terminals without any kind of tool

I think you may be referring to a ceiling Rose on a pendant or batten holder and not a luminaire?
Even so the terminals should be shrouded

 

[Fleeting]

I think you may be referring to a ceiling Rose on a pendant or batten holder and not a luminaire?
Even so the terminals should be shrouded

Yes and no. This is an MK batten holder and the screw terminal is readily exposed.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/1200/best-practice-guide-4-issue-4.pdf

Issue 4 is an old version..
Current issue is 6:
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/fpton1au/bpg4-a5-2022.pdf

 

[ProDave]

Yes and no. This is an MK batten holder and the screw terminal is readily exposed.View attachment 16212

I would not be bothered about the screw being accessible if you unscrewed the cover when the two live pins are accessible the other end without doing anything.

 

[BenCos18]

I think you may be referring to a ceiling Rose on a pendant or batten holder and not a luminaire?
Even so the terminals should be shrouded

nope most of the style I've seen can be unscrewed by hand and you can touch the terminals

 

[BenCos18]

but yep I had indeed got the two mixed up tbh

 

[binky]

nope most of the style I've seen can be unscrewed by hand and you can touch the terminals

there's not many pendants that don't need ladder to access, unless you are very tall. 'Placing out of reach' is recognised as an acceptable means of keeping things safe.

 

[BenCos18]

there's not many pendants that don't need ladder to access, unless you are very tall. 'Placing out of reach' is recognised as an acceptable means of keeping things safe.

ah true
didn't think of that tbh

 

[kerching]

There's an apartment block near me that I do a bit of maintenance on. When built the Architect forgot that services could not go through the concrete floor beams but had to go under them!
So the MF ceiling is beneath these. I can easily change a light fitting withOUT steps or over stretching ceiling height must be about 2.1 m which I am sure doesn't comply with Building Regs...but someone has passed it