Was I being unreasonable? EICR Clarifications

[kerching]

2.5 always had a 1mm cpc up until late 60s/early 70s ( I think those are the dates )

causes headaches when testing an old install that has new cables added

just saying

 

[Fleeting]

A date is difficult to pinpoint and although the adoption of metric in all manner of things began in 1962 the British Cable Confederation adopted it in 1970 but this does not mean metric cables were not kicking around before then. The first 2.5 T&E incorporated a 1.0 cpc and my house built in 1971 has a single ring final with such cable, the biggest issue with this size cpc recognised later was the use of semi enclosed BS3036 fuses which prompted the 1.0 to be upgraded to 1.5.

 

[Madasafish]

My basement area was not wired until the early 90's so 1mm CPC is definitely out of the question. Each of the testers own reports confirm it is 1.5mm CPC.  

 

[Murdoch]

2.5 always had a 1mm cpc up until late 60s/early 70s ( I think those are the dates )

causes headaches when testing an old install that has new cables added

just saying

I didn't think it was late 60's but every day is a learning day AND it definitely was still being installed in 1980 when our house was built

I've added this separate thread for reference

 

[Madasafish]

did you provide a copy of an EICR to the 3rd inspector?

Yes, the 3rd inspector received the full report of both previous EICR's with the company names redacted.

@Murdock Why do you ask? Do you draw a different conclusion?

 

[Madasafish]

@Murdock The previous EICR's were sent to him before he completed his own EICR.

 

[Murdoch]

@Murdock The previous EICR's were sent to him before he completed his own EICR.

Thats what I do - ask to see them before I do an EICR 

This is an example of the "observations" on a recent EICR I did - the software I use is useful as it quotes the reg number AND allows me to input some text to allow customers to understand what the issue(s) are and where they are

 

[kerching]

2.5 always had a 1mm cpc up until late 60s/early 70s ( I think those are the dates )

causes headaches when testing an old install that has new cables added

just saying

My bad, just checked 1981... I thought it was much earlier, potential brain fart. Must have been change to metric I was thinking about

 

[Madasafish]

@Murdock, thank-you for that.

Tester 3 for the downstairs ring final don't really tally with Testers 1 and 2. Testers 1 and 2 are quite similar but Tester 3 readings are way different. As above with 2.5/1.5 cable the cpc reading should be ×1.67 of the line conductors. I would say Tester 3 readings are totally wrong considering you have two sets of previous results to compare it with.

From the calculation provided I can now see Tester 3 is singling out the CPC as being the loose connection with the downstairs ring-main, albeit a negligible amount. I am trying to understand where he coming from because it still does not explain how I have magically lost half my downstairs ring-main on all 3 circuits since February 2021,  when you consider he had the previous two EICR's and his last reply to me was.....

The upstairs sockets continuity results are different when they should be the same.

Nothing has changed on the downstairs sockets since Tester 1. More importantly,  please correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe you can covertly alter the down stairs ring-main to obtain those readings when compared to the previous two readings. 

 

[Murdoch]

From the calculation provided I can now see Tester 3 is singling out the CPC as being the loose connection with the downstairs ring-main, albeit a negligible amount. I am trying to understand where he coming from because it still does not explain how I have magically lost half my downstairs ring-main on all 3 circuits since February 2021,  when you consider he had the previous two EICR's and his last reply to me was.....

The upstairs sockets continuity results are different when they should be the same.

Nothing has changed on the downstairs sockets since Tester 1. More importantly,  please correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe you can covertly alter the down stairs ring-main to obtain those readings when compared to the previous two readings. 

So looking at the 3 sets of results again for the downstairs sockets , and based on the assumption that tester 3 had the 2 reports with him when he did his testing I would have thought it may have rung bells as his values are so different. 

DIY changes do introduce some very odd circuits to homes over the years.

 

[Madasafish]

DIY changes do introduce some very odd circuits to homes over the years.

We are not talking years here, it's 3 months.

I'm not sure you understand my point. Please correct me if I am wrong. It is impossible for Tester 3 to get those low impedance readings for downstairs sockets given the previous 2 readings unless he has some magical ability to dramatically reduce the size of the downstairs ring main. Am I correct? Yes or No?

 

[Murdoch]

We are not talking years here, it's 3 months.

I'm not sure you understand my point. Please correct me if I am wrong. It is impossible for Tester 3 to get those low impedance readings for downstairs sockets given the previous 2 readings unless he has some magical ability to dramatically reduce the size of the downstairs ring main. Am I correct? Yes or No?

you need to seek clarification from the inspector, not us

 

[Madasafish]

you need to seek clarification from the inspector, not us

Appreciate the help.

 

[Murdoch]

Appreciate the help.

or get a local spark to re test the circuit concerned

Do you know how long the inspector was in the property?

 

[Sharpend]

Even with Zero’ing his leads I would expect a higher reading than he has got. 

 

[Fleeting]

@Murdoch this is quite a serious personal accusation and not appropiate on this forum.

So are you going to act on it or do nothing. I have messaged you about this on two occasions but you fail to respond.

 

[Fleeting]

 play nicely now @Murdoch

So how are you acting upon flouting forum rules. Messaging mods is totally ineffective as no one responds. My next course of action is to directly contact the forum owners to find a resolution.

 

[Madasafish]

you need to seek clarification from the inspector, not us

Before I contact Tester  3,  can learned peeps on here please sanity check the revised document attached to ensure there are no glaring mistakes.

Much appreciated,

View attachment EICR_Calc.pdf

 

[Murdoch]

Before I contact Tester  3,  can learned peeps on here please sanity check the revised document attached to ensure there are no glaring mistakes.

Much appreciated,

View attachment 11478

i think you are over thinking this. 
 

i would suggest you drop the 3 rd tester an email saying you’ve noticed a large discrepancy between the readings on the downstairs sockets and the earlier EICRs . Then ask them if there is a reasonable explanation for this or whether it needs retesting 

if I was on the receiving end of such an email I would probably offer to revisit to re test the circuit FOC 

 

[Madasafish]

i would suggest you drop the 3 rd tester an email saying you’ve noticed a large discrepancy between the readings on the downstairs sockets and the earlier EICRs . Then ask them if there is a reasonable explanation for this or whether it needs retesting 

I did exactly that......

Hi Tester 3,

1.The test results for circuit 3 show loose connections within the circuit. C2

            “ The upstairs sockets continuity results are different when they should be the same.”

There is a large discrepancy with your readings for circuit 3 (Downstairs Sockets) and the earlier EICR’s that you have a copy of. Is there a reasonable explanation for this or does that circuit need retesting?

Kind regards,

Here is his reply......

Dear xxxxxx,

The readings showing the loose connections are on the table at the back of the certificate.  With all due respect please pass the certificate to another qualified electrician to complete the remedial works as the money paid so far does warrant any further comment or long debate over minor repairs.  You obviously do not trust my professional opinion so please seek another opinion elsewhere.

All future correspondence will not be responded to.  In the event that you are not happy with this please complain to the NICEIC board.

All my registration details can be found on my certificate.

Regards,

Tester 3