MCB to fit LAP consumer unit

[Phoenix]

 Fit a current Wylex or MK mcb into an old board of the same make, and it will likely be a worse fit than fitting a "wrong" make of MCB. 

The best (worst?) one was where I decided to use the new Wylex miniture RCBOs ( https://www.electrium.co.uk/media/20171130143632_0_224019 Wylex SNC RCBO (Web).pdf ) on a small board change job, ordered them and a wylex main switch board from one of our regular wholesalers, they were not compatable!. I knew the wylex RCBOs would not fit the older boards with the slotted (rather than pronged) type of busbar, but what I didn't know, was that right upto that point the main switch, and rcd main switch boards still had the slotted busbar (I thought it had been moved away from about 10 years ago, and indeed it had, for the split load boards....)

The wholsaler didnt have stock of any of the new boards yet, nor did another wholesaler, however they are part of a chain and a branch in nottingham did and they offered to get it next day, it turned up and it was the old style board again, they too didnt have any of the newer style ones, however they had received a delivery of the older style ones that they had booked in on thr wrong product code!

I gave up and installed hager board and hager reduced height rcbos instead, wanted to use wylex because hager only do rcbos upto 32A in reduced height, so I had to to use a standard height one for the 40A circuit, wheresa wylex make a 40A miniture rcbo

 

[Sidewinder]

Do we have a specific Reg number for this?

and on a slight tangent...what is the situation with the 'regs not being retrospective'?

what I am trying to say, badly, is "Can we note a mismatched breaker in a board, quote the NEW Reg AND say it was wrong when done originally?" If you see what I mean?

i have now confused myself

OK, BEAMA issued a technical bulletin in August 2011 on behalf of all their members about the potential hazards of mixing and matching.

The Electrical Equipment Safety Regulations (EESR) were first published in 1994.

Compliance with which required either compliance with a harmonised standard which would allow specific aspects to be presumed, and if otherwise designed to the harmonised standard, subsequently the manufacturer of the product could make a presumption of conformity to the requirements of the directive.

So since 1994, the requirement has been to place on the market equipment that complied with the Regulations.

Ergo compliance with EN 60439, and then more recently EN 61439.

These were the successor standards to BE 5486, which such switch gear as consumer units would have been required to meet prior to that.

The issue is that in the UK a domestic property may have easily up to 16kA fault current at the origin.

To save us having to fit seriously large circuit breakers we are allowed to fit 6kA (typically) breaking capacity, at a point in the installation with a potential 16kA fault current, this is not allowed under EN 61439-3, nor was it allowed under EN 60439-3, and therefore it is not allowed under the EESR, and thus EAWR & HASAWA.

However, in the UK we have a national Annex to EN 60439-3, Annex ZA which was first published in 1991, and subsequently EN 61439-3 which retains the requirements in Annexe ZA.

This gives the UK an opt out from the full requirements of the Low Voltage Directive for domestic consumer units under certain specified conditions.

These are that the fault current at the origin is specified by the DNO, that it is limited to 16kA, and is fed by no more than a 100A fuse, to BS 88.3 (BS 1361) and, that the assembly is tested by the manufacturer (which is defined as the entity that places the assembly on the market, i.e. into use), and the assembly complies with the requirements of the standard for safety, e.g., does not explode/catch fire, emit hazardous substances, arcs, sparks etc., in the event of a fault.

Whilst BS 88.3 has been kind of superseded by HD 60269-3, dual numbered as BS 88, the standards system allows for this.

So, if the consumer unit is not type tested, then it is not legal for use in the UK, and the person modifying the equipment, or the person putting the assembly onto the market is the legal manufacturer, and is responsible for all of the requirements of the manufacturer, and noting that it is a legal requirement to be insured for the supply of a product, which this then becomes.

So that is the legal standpoint.

Now as far as the non statutory industry code of practice/guidance which is BS 7671 goes, I only have searchable documents which go back as far as the green 17th, my older versions are not searchable, or on paper.

However, you could go back to the red 15th 12-4 & 12-5, then there would be 12-6,  421-2, 510-1, 511-1, and all these would apply so 1981 onward, so even before the requirements of EESR.

 

[Murdoch]

Do we have a specific Reg number for this?

and on a slight tangent...what is the situation with the 'regs not being retrospective'?

what I am trying to say, badly, is "Can we note a mismatched breaker in a board, quote the NEW Reg AND say it was wrong when done originally?" If you see what I mean?

i have now confused myself

BBB

536.4.203

I believe

 

[kerching]

BBB

536.4.203

I believe

Thanks for that...

and here it is

536.4.203 Integration of devices and components
The relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series shall be applied to the integration of mechanical and electrical devices and components, e.g. circuit-breakers, control devices, busbars into an empty enclosure or existing low voltage assembly. In low voltage assemblies to the BS EN 61439 series, e.g. consumer units, distribution boards, incorporated devices and components shall only be those declared suitable according to the assembly manufacturer’s instructions or literature. NOTE 1: The use of individual components complying with their respective product standard(s) does not indicate their compatibility when installed with other components in a low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly.
NOTE 2: Incorporated components inside the assembly can be from different manufacturers. It is essential that all incorporated components should have had their compatibility for the final enclosed arrangements verified by the original manufacturer of the assembly and be assembled in accordance with their instructions e.g. the consumer unit, distribution board manufacturer. The original manufacturer is the organization that carried out the original design and the associated verification of the low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly to the relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series. If an assembly deviates from its original manufacturer’s instructions, or includes components not included in the original verification, the person introducing the deviation becomes the original manufacturer with the corresponding obligations.
 

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks for that...

and here it is

536.4.203 Integration of devices and components
The relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series shall be applied to the integration of mechanical and electrical devices and components, e.g. circuit-breakers, control devices, busbars into an empty enclosure or existing low voltage assembly. In low voltage assemblies to the BS EN 61439 series, e.g. consumer units, distribution boards, incorporated devices and components shall only be those declared suitable according to the assembly manufacturer’s instructions or literature. NOTE 1: The use of individual components complying with their respective product standard(s) does not indicate their compatibility when installed with other components in a low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly.
NOTE 2: Incorporated components inside the assembly can be from different manufacturers. It is essential that all incorporated components should have had their compatibility for the final enclosed arrangements verified by the original manufacturer of the assembly and be assembled in accordance with their instructions e.g. the consumer unit, distribution board manufacturer. The original manufacturer is the organization that carried out the original design and the associated verification of the low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly to the relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series. If an assembly deviates from its original manufacturer’s instructions, or includes components not included in the original verification, the person introducing the deviation becomes the original manufacturer with the corresponding obligations.
 

Hum .... my crystal ball says that note 2 was written by the OEMs ..... to enhance their profits .....

 

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for that...

and here it is

536.4.203 Integration of devices and components
The relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series shall be applied to the integration of mechanical and electrical devices and components, e.g. circuit-breakers, control devices, busbars into an empty enclosure or existing low voltage assembly. In low voltage assemblies to the BS EN 61439 series, e.g. consumer units, distribution boards, incorporated devices and components shall only be those declared suitable according to the assembly manufacturer’s instructions or literature. NOTE 1: The use of individual components complying with their respective product standard(s) does not indicate their compatibility when installed with other components in a low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly.
NOTE 2: Incorporated components inside the assembly can be from different manufacturers. It is essential that all incorporated components should have had their compatibility for the final enclosed arrangements verified by the original manufacturer of the assembly and be assembled in accordance with their instructions e.g. the consumer unit, distribution board manufacturer. The original manufacturer is the organization that carried out the original design and the associated verification of the low voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly to the relevant part of the BS EN 61439 series. If an assembly deviates from its original manufacturer’s instructions, or includes components not included in the original verification, the person introducing the deviation becomes the original manufacturer with the corresponding obligations.
 

Yes Kerch, that is from the 18th, but earlier you asked as the standard is not retrospective was there a clause that required this before, and there is.

511-1 in the 15th Red

511-01-01 in the 16th Blue & Brown ( don't have any other copies to look at on the computer)

511.1 in the 17th Red, Green & Yellow

So basically since 1981 it has not been allowed to mix and match components unless the assembly is type tested.

Hum .... my crystal ball says that note 2 was written by the OEMs ..... to enhance their profits .....

Murdoch, I can understand that point of view, and I don't disagree.

However, it is also written into the law via the EESR & the standards harmonised to that.

Now it may be the manufacturers that have pushed for this, but, there may be genuine safety concerns also.

Have you seen some of the videos on YouTube of the type testing of electrical panels?

Have a look, they are quite good, and en eye opener.

 

[kerching]

Yes Kerch, that is from the 18th, but earlier you asked as the standard is not retrospective was there a clause that required this before, and there is.

511-1 in the 15th Red

511-01-01 in the 16th Blue & Brown ( don't have any other copies to look at on the computer)

511.1 in the 17th Red, Green & Yellow

Excellent, just what I needed thanks