Part Rewire

[Electricalserv]

Alright lads,

Was called to a job on Saturday, a part rewire.Bloke said its an emergency as plasterer is due in Monday and sparks have let him down.He needs it done today etc etc.Its basically a relocation of the kitchen.

The kitchen is now going to be where the second living room was and the old kitchen is now going to be a living room..

My problem is (and stupidly I've only just really considered it).... I have used the existing sockets from each room. So basically the down ring is now supplying the kitchen and the kitchen circuit is now supplying only the new living room and a small conservatory getting built.

I know that the kitchen should be on its own circuit. But being naive I've rushed in to get this 1st fixed for the guy.

Whats my options here. I feel as though having the front room hall and kitchen on the same circuit is going to cause problems for the home owners and also future sparks who come into Inspect & test. Whta my best options here?

Do you think its ok and just mark up the board and paperwork correctly stating what each feeds? or find the nearest legs of the down ring and connect them to the old kitchen sockets (new living room) and bring a new seprate feed into the new kitchen and keep them seperate. Its always hard on partials!

 

[sellers]

I'd relax mate, I take it you've tapped into an existing ring. So you have 32amps to play with. If this is an everage sized house the max you going to probably pull from the living room, conservatory and hall is probably about 3-4amps for some TV's and table lamps etc, probably shooting up to 6 or 7 when the hoovers on.

Leaving you plenty for the kitchen. I wouldn't worry mate.

 

[Electricalserv]

I know the loads should be fine. Its just my name on the cert. If I was a spark going in to PIR a house and seen that I'd think cowboy!!!!

 

[MajorOak]

^+1 The kitchen does not have to be on it's own circuit as long as you label it up.

 

[Electricalserv]

I just want everything to be good. I think leaving it as it is could make other sparks think I was working badly. Whats your opinions?

 

[MajorOak]

I would not think so. Some people have an upstairs ring and a downstairs ring and that's it. Just label it up identifying the circuits on the C.U. and on the Installation Certificate under circuit designation write "front room, hall and kitchen" for that circuit, sorted!

 

[NozSpark]

I think when doing alterations you can only do so much, whilst you wouldn't rewire it like this it isn't going to cause any problems,,, as Sellers says the other rooms on that circuit are only going to pull a very small load.

My home only has one socket circuit for the whole house, it's not alone, plenty of others are like that and they don't seem to have any problems

 

[Doc Hudson]

There is no regulation stating you should have a separate circuit for the kitchen. Just should have sufficient circuits to minimise inconvenience in the event of a single fault and you should try to balance the loads around the circuit. In my opinion you arrangement is better than many houses that still only have one socket circuit for the whole property.

Doc H.

 

[Evans Electric]

DON'T PANIC !!!! DON'T PANIC !!! Electricserv, we listen too much to what we are told, what other guys say and especially , how the firm you grew up with used to do things.

And an obsession has grown up about kitchens recently . Like , OOooh dear its really dangerous in there , so its become a " Special Location" all of a sudden. Well a domestic kitchen does have dangers in there, but more likely to be boiling water , sharp knives , food poisioning , this business about "Must have it's own Ring Main " is ballcocks . If its a new build then its worth it , existing house , not a problem , main power users are oven, hotplate , shower , not kitchen plugs.

Makes more sense to me, to put washing M/cs and driers on their own radial. Domestic kitchen , 1 toaster 1 microwave , kettle is biggest user ,on for 3 mins when making tea.

Commercial kitchen , yes , Special Location , lots of machines, mixers, freezers, water heaters, ovens , hot plates ,virtually an industrial area, water slopping around etc.

 

[ktguk]

I just want everything to be good. I think leaving it as it is could make other sparks think I was working badly. Whats your opinions?

the others let them down so you'll be called back, anyway long as it complys whats the prob, i got out done by a cowboy yesterday wire a hot tub from a garage with only a 20a 2.5 feed the instructions requires 25amps and the spec says 6mm/10mm IP65 rotatry isolator SY with IP glands etc , so a new sub to the garge and all the required... but no "too much not pay that amount" (5/6 hours + parts) my mate said he can just hook it up to whats there argh!!!!! thats a cowboy (intructions says to P Part notify aswell!!)

 

[Sidewinder]

Electricalserv,

DON'T PANIC!

These are valuable words from a very good book.

Your answer is 42.

Don't worry there are many houses on a single ring, my own included, it grew organically as it were and it was never split, kitchen, all living and bedrooms, and an "office" all on the single ring, probably well over the sq area, if thought about, but the Z's are fine before the RCD allowing for the actual Ze.

What I mean is the increase in Z due to the cable runs is negligible, and with a sufficiently low Ze then RCD's would not be needed, that comment did not seem to make sense!

You'll be fine, it is a partial rewire, put in the comments box perhaps, "Due to commercial considerations it was not possible to feed the new kitchen from a separate ring circuit."?

 

[steptoe]

well well well

Ive only just saw this,

and I think it is very succint coming from a 'competent' person that really has NO idea.

 

[Badger]

I think when doing alterations you can only do so much, whilst you wouldn't rewire it like this it isn't going to cause any problems,,, as Sellers says the other rooms on that circuit are only going to pull a very small load.My home only has one socket circuit for the whole house, it's not alone, plenty of others are like that and they don't seem to have any problems

well ours has 3 ring mains, 1 cctv dedictaed socket radial for cctv, 1 radial for computers, 1 radial for garage, 1 radial for internet system and 1 radial for the outdoor sockets front side and rear :^O

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

well well wellIve only just saw this,

and I think it is very succint coming from a 'competent' person that really has NO idea.

Now I just wonder how you would approach this if it were a PIR....

and you found this circuit arrangement?

code it?

no code?

phone a friend?

ask the audience?

50/50

or perhaps others might.....

Use all your experience learned from 2391???????????????????????????

:C :C:C

:coat

 

[PC Electrics]

I changed a CU in a 4 bed house once which only had 1 RFC. Usual appliances in kitchen. The RFC had no continuity and after testing we determined the break was under the nice tiled kitchen floor (jb's everwhere!). So, whole house on a 20A mcb !!! Never had any callbacks. I think a lot of bull is spouted about kitchens needing their own 32A RFC/radial.

 

[sellers]

depends on the size of the house and amount of occupants. My old mans kitchen ring main was broken, so I downsized his breaker, it trips out twice a week, so will hopefully teach him a lesson next time he tried to add a socket or 2 himself many years ago.

 

[jameseye12]

Use all your experience learned from 2391???????????????????????????

Would this be the 2391-10, the 2391-20 (apparently the same thing, he says), or the DIY 2391 home testing kit bought on ebay for