'Pay for' EV charge point

[binky]

 I've been asked to price up 3 off EV charge points at a block of holiday flats I do electrical work for. The management committee don't want to give away the leccy for free, so does anyone know of a EV charger that takes cash / cards / bitcoins or other form of payment without getting into anything too complicated on the money side? 

 

[revjames]

I think most 'public' charging points that aren't free use some kind of phone app for payments? I would be interested to know myself as I want to fit one at a holiday let.

 

[boltonsparky]

You can install some that work off RFID cards, maybe this could be set up for a client when they book.

The one I have at home can be set up for this but never looked into it more than that as I don't need to bill myself for it. Similarly it logs the charging sessions per use, both in kwH and price times and dates via the app, that would mean them billing the customer after their stay. Mine's a projectEV one, I'm sure all the smart ones will facilitate that function.

Paying public ones use apps, and some just a tap of a contactless card. 

I think @NozSpark installs them and probably knows a lot more. 

 

[NozSpark]

I know that there are some that you can have rfid cards for, but I don’t know if the backend can be set up to bill individual users or not…. or wether it just unlocks the charge point

Modern public charge points now have to be set up to be allow contactless payments…. although some give a reduced rate if you use their app

We now have changed our old Ford Focus for a new Corsa e….. got to say that it’s such a nice drive

 

[NozSpark]

I’ve just had a quick look and this might be of interest

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2019/10/what_you_need_to_know_about_selling_electricity_to_ev_users.pdf

 

[binky]

Knowing the mind set of the management company they would want to charge direct rather than bill later, so I'mgussing I would need a GSM card and some form of direct debiting. 

Might be asier to find some refurbished leccy meters that take coins and stick some outside sockets in so they can use their granny chargers  :^O

 

[NozSpark]

I’ve just seen this….. they might be able to help

https://sevadis.com/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=Company Specific&utm_term=EV Owners&utm_content=Intro - Who we and what we do&fbclid=IwAR2x_-oqzoNbf03-NdaborPP6j_xk6Z3UYs30aIbHDAIitzq39L1j-RQWGc

 

[Murdoch]

Might be asier to find some refurbished leccy meters that take coins and stick some outside sockets in so they can use their granny chargers  :^O

good plan

might need some of these 

https://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/products/Trailing+Sockets+%26+Leads/Electric+Vehicle+Charging/Weatherproof+Mode+2+Electric+Vehicle+13A+Charging+Socket+with+RCBO+IP66/2774952238

 

[binky]

good plan

might need some of these 

https://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/products/Trailing+Sockets+%26+Leads/Electric+Vehicle+Charging/Weatherproof+Mode+2+Electric+Vehicle+13A+Charging+Socket+with+RCBO+IP66/2774952238

8 miles per charging hour - how did they get to that figure on a 'plug'? 

 

[binky]

this seems to be the answer . Just have to work out where money goes etc etc.

https://www.rolecserv.com/charging-on-the-go

https://3814f048-6c69-488c-9f3e-e8df0a79bfd4.filesusr.com/ugd/1667b4_be75361f1239429eb9dfb08dda0a0cbe.pdf

 

[NozSpark]

8 miles per charging hour - how did they get to that figure on a 'plug'? 

They've worked it out on an average of 4 miles / kWh.....

we've not done 300 miles in our car yet and are averaging 3.6 miles / kWh ..... thats with a 50kWh battery of which 45kWh is useable.. so it works out that we have a range of 162 miles.... I'm sure that we can get more range out of it with a bit more economical driving .... WLTP range is 209 miles

 

[binky]

They've worked it out on an average of 4 miles / kWh.....

we've not done 300 miles in our car yet and are averaging 3.6 miles / kWh ..... thats with a 50kWh battery of which 45kWh is useable.. so it works out that we have a range of 162 miles.... I'm sure that we can get more range out of it with a bit more economical driving .... WLTP range is 209 miles

I take it you've been using the 'go pedal' enthusiastically  :^O

 

[Geoff1946]

What effect does using the heater in winter have?

 

[NozSpark]

I take it you've been using the 'go pedal' enthusiastically  :^O

Occasionally.... but only really put it in sport mode at the lights   what kills it (same as any car) is driving at  70mph on a dual carriageway 

What effect does using the heater in winter have?

Apparently it might take 10% off the range... heated seats and steering wheel have very little effect though... the figure that we have got is with the Aircon/heater set to 21º and on "Auto"... also the headlights were on for a good part of the journey as it was quite overcast.

The range is more than enough for us though.... most of the time the wife just goes to town and back (less than 2 miles round trip), our longest journey (for now) will be to see our daughter in Brum,,, 110 miles.... and TBH after a couple of hours in the car we need to stretch our legs, go for a pee and have a coffee

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

The range is more than enough for us though.... most of the time the wife just goes to town and back (less than 2 miles round trip), our longest journey (for now) will be to see our daughter in Brum,,, 110 miles.... and TBH after a couple of hours in the car we need to stretch our legs, go for a pee and have a coffee

IMHO The key problem with the EV charge time -vs- range issue..

Is that probably 80%+ of the time most people are doing regular journeys...

Work commute..  and/or  Local trip shopping, friends etc..

Which can be relatively easily accommodated around known charging arrangements/availability....

BUT..

when the non-standard open ended, or urgent trips crop up...

having to spend excessive time searching for, and/or waiting to charge... 

(compared to 10mins or less filling your tank at an easy to find fuel station),

could be a significant inconvenience....

e.g.

We are in the Midlands,  (approx 30mins away, less than 20miles from the centre of Birmingham)..

But now have grown up children (and/or their partners), scattered away from the home nest!!

One lives in Sheffield..

One lives in Portsmouth..

One lives in Gloucester..

(plus others still at home..  {5 children})

In normal, (Pre-Covid times), If we were having a day out to visit the kids..

After the initial journey to meet at their house...

we would often end up going who knows where...

To one or more local attractions.. dependant upon the weather..

Such as if visiting our daughter & granddaughter in Sheffield, that could end up being all sorts of Peak District attractions..

in relative unspoilt countryside...  dunno how many miles...  with lack of EV accessible charging stations...

Maybe I am just an old sceptic..  But I can't see that working easily with an EV!!

In the past we have done day-trips up to the lake-district.. 

easy-peasy there AND back, on a full tank of diesel, (or Petrol), but could be a buttock clencher with an EV !!  

With our current car I can fill up in <10mins, knowing I have around 550 to 600miles range, driving conditions dependant..

which will do us good for the biggest day-out without knowing what exactly what we are going to do..

(not sure any current EV's can do that?)

OR...

Recently..  Nov last year.  my mother passed away, (not Covid related), so the kids all came back up for the funeral in December..

Obviously our crew came back and stayed overnight..

SO..

If they all had EV's..

somehow we would have been trying to accommodate 3x EV's charging overnight so they could all get enough charge to get back home the following day!!!   

Plus that's not including if we needed to charge our own car up as well!!

If time is not of the essence, and a charging point is not currently in use...  taking an extra long coffee break will not be a problem..

But sometimes you just need to stop, pee, fill-up, carry on moving in as short time as possible!!

Which is the big EV weakness!!

:C     

 

[NozSpark]

I’m not going to try and convert you but this is a very standard argument between ICE and BEV…

Just remember, that at some point during a journey you will have to stop for a per/coffee/stretch your legs….. if you plan this at a rapid charge point where you can charge at up to 150kWh (depending on the charge point and cars built in DC charger) then you can be charged back up to 80% or more (from 20%) in less than 1/2 an hour….. 

If you want to have a look at the availability of charge points have a look at Zap map

 

[Sharpend]

Two things with battery vehicles? 
1) doesn’t fast charging eventually shorten life of batteries?

2) how do the batteries fair in the colder weather? Are they lithium as I always thought lithium battery didn’t like the cold? 

 

[binky]

Two things with battery vehicles? 
1) doesn’t fast charging eventually shorten life of batteries?

2) how do the batteries fair in the colder weather? Are they lithium as I always thought lithium battery didn’t like the cold? 

 batteries that haven't been dropped below about 13-20% can be rapid charged safely.

cold weather does affect batteries, I could imagine those times when you get stuck in a blizzard on a motorway for hours on end will be 'traumatic' with an EV.

 

[boltonsparky]

Heating depends on the type used. My van is basic spec so has resistive heating which is quite heavy on the battery. The newer vans are on a more efficient heating (not sure on the type) so is better on the battery.

My van averages 4 miles per KWH not matter how heavy it is or the temperature. I haven't used it below 0C but down to the low singles doesn't affect it. The only variable is how heavy the right foot is. 

The stuck in snow thing comes up a lot. A lot of EVs are on 50kwh batteries, heaters are quoted to use around a kw, stuck in a blizzard half charged that's 25h of heat. As Noz stated, the use of heated seats and steering wheel massively reduces battery consumption compared to heating the cabin so you'r even better off with that.

I had range anxiety when I first got it but you have to think of them completely differently to cars/vans running on dinosaur juice. 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I’m not going to try and convert you but this is a very standard argument between ICE and BEV…

Just remember, that at some point during a journey you will have to stop for a per/coffee/stretch your legs….. if you plan this at a rapid charge point where you can charge at up to 150kWh (depending on the charge point and cars built in DC charger) then you can be charged back up to 80% or more (from 20%) in less than 1/2 an hour….. 

If you want to have a look at the availability of charge points have a look at Zap map

This will always be an argument because charge time is a key weakness of an EV..

On the one hand the Government is spending bucket loads on the new HS2 line..

where one of the arguments was the "reduced journey time"..   But when it comes to EV's "increased journey time" is good. 

So..  time is money for those in suits commuting to the big city..

But for the rest of us. . time is no longer important...  you can just sit and wait for your batteries to re-charge.

If we're having a day out visiting family.. 

I don't want to be wasting some of that time sitting around at any type of fuel station..

when I would rather be either at our destination with the family..   or back home..

(Obviously it may be ok for a sales rep who can carry on doing some work on their laptop/tablet, while waiting for the company car to recharge..)

The majority of service stations are expensive, boring, and generally places I spend as little time as possible at.

the only times we do spend more than 10 mins at any service station is either'..

when travelling late at night going on holiday with the caravan and stop for a power nap..

or when I've been doing my Heathrow-Taxi service for the kids, (240mile round trip), and its an early morning flight..

So had a short power nap & coffee on the way back home..

But other than those types of events, It's more like a formula 1 quick pit-stop, drive in, have a pee, drive off..

We'd normal just go direct door to door when going up to Sheffield.. (approx 2hrs)..

Or if visiting Portsmouth maybe one quick loo-break then continue journey ASASP..

And that's of course assuming..  you don't have to wait longer, as all chargers are currently in use..

or I've heard stories of people leaving their car to charge coming back after coffee to find it hasn't worked..!

And none of this looks at how EV's, cope or not, with other normal activities the average family may be doing with their current car...

Such as going on holiday fully laden with a caravan..  

how much is the range affected by running fully laden -vs- just driver + 1 passenger?

Our old car, a people carrier, could carry 7 passengers, kayaks + tow the caravan etc..

and get all the way down to Cornwall on a single tank of fuel..

even when it was 15years+ old...

I would be very interested to see what the full real life-cycle costs/parameters are between EV's and conventional engines..

Charge time -vs- range is one aspect..

But there's also, load being carried -vs- range..

Age of battery -vs- range..

Bad weather, (heaters/snow/ice/defrosting) -vs- range..

and of course initial cost of the vehicle -vs- range..

I can't see any major problems for local commuting..

But at the moment there are still a lot of hurdles to cross, that EV's haven't yet addressed.

But only time will tell and we will not know proper answers for many years, 

when you can see what the genuine second-hand value of EV's are..

and how they do or don't perform after years of real use..

and how bad queues are at charging points..

If the DNO's networks can cope with all these home charging points..

and how long batteries do last!

There's going to be one helluva lot of dinosaur fuel burned up building all this new infra-structure..

How many years will that take to pay back?

:C