Told one of my jobs was non-compliant & I had ripped off my customer

[Rob.]

@Rob. I take on board what you are saying but the supply from DNO is beyond our scope or control. 

Our remit is the Bs7671, which requires us to minimise - to reduce to the lowest factor- the effect of one circuit to another (don’t have the actual regs with me at moment, it’s on the van) therefore a dual RCD board is not reducing to the lowest factor by its very nature. ??

They mention the lowest factor, but will also have as far as reasonably practicable. 

You could argue then (an I know I'm playing devils advocate here) that each point in the house should be on it's own protective device. 

A duel board is the minimum requirement, but if it's all somebody can afford then it's still likely to be an improvement on what was there already. Saying it's non compliant though is not a fact.

I completely agree that boards such as the SPS board that was posted are the best way of doing things. 

 

[Sharpend]

There in lies the problem though Rob, everything is based around what people can afford and so various differing levels of interpretations are presented. If it were about standard as opposed to affordability then there would only be one suitable interpretation and therefore demand for it would be at max and thus costs could be reduced -economies of scale etc. 

Perhaps the Europeans have this right then with all the radial circuits they install thus creating more circuits with less on? 

Perhaps protection per room is the way to go? 

Do the Europeans use RCBO’s or standard MCBs with RCD? 

 

[Blue Duck]

There in lies the problem though Rob, everything is based around what people can afford and so various differing levels of interpretations are presented. If it were about standard as opposed to affordability then there would only be one suitable interpretation and therefore demand for it would be at max and thus costs could be reduced -economies of scale etc. 

Perhaps the Europeans have this right then with all the radial circuits they install thus creating more circuits with less on? 

Perhaps protection per room is the way to go? 

Do the Europeans use RCBO’s or standard MCBs with RCD? 

DP mcbs I believe with an Rcd up front

But may have moved on to RCBO'S  DP of course.

I think it was this thread where I liked to Ali baba dot com where you can get yourself a SP+N RCBO for a few dollars so I feel it is the manufacturers that may have to some degree dictated this regulation. 

 

[Tony S]

There in lies the problem though Rob, everything is based around what people can afford and so various differing levels of interpretations are presented. If it were about standard as opposed to affordability then there would only be one suitable interpretation and therefore demand for it would be at max and thus costs could be reduced -economies of scale etc. 

Perhaps the Europeans have this right then with all the radial circuits they install thus creating more circuits with less on? 

Perhaps protection per room is the way to go? 

Do the Europeans use RCBO’s or standard MCBs with RCD? 

Yes but they are two units wide.

 

[Rob.]

There in lies the problem though Rob, everything is based around what people can afford and so various differing levels of interpretations are presented. If it were about standard as opposed to affordability then there would only be one suitable interpretation and therefore demand for it would be at max and thus costs could be reduced -economies of scale etc. 

Exactly the same thing happens when designing safety systems for say a chemical plant. 

You could eliminate 99.9% of the risk of an explosion or process malfunction that could potentially kill somebody. However this is going to cost £50,000,000.00 to implement. However, they could just eliminate 95% of the risk with only £1,000,000.00.  Which do you think is going to happen? I've made these values up by the way, but it's what I work with on a day to day basis. It's a little bit more complicated than that but you get the idea. An yes, there is a formula for working out how much a persons life is worth.

Clearly this example is far more extreme than a domestic situation, and can't really compare. The regs are worded almost the same. Risk has to be brought down to an acceptable level. An acceptable level isn't a set figure. It's got to meet a minimum, but no absolute. 

 

[steptoe]

when I was an apprentice we were all issued with an office done folder regarding methods of work and standards etc,

kind of an onsite guide as to how things must be done, it included some common circuit calcs etc,

I remember one bit in it where it stated that cost was NOT a reason for something NOT to be done to mitigate safety

we were doing planned and reactive maintenance for NIHE  so it may have had some of their SRs ncluded

 

[Tony S]

Is a life worth 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours lost production?

Answers on a postcard to PO Box 4572 (Mongolia)

 

[Rob.]

If it's anything like a site I visited in Pakistan  <5000usd. 

We turned the job down. Couldn't put our name against something that inherently unsafe.

 

[Zeespark]

Where in Pakistan Rob? I was out there 30 years ago as nipper, I have not seen anything like it before or after that trip, and dont even mention potholes, I was in Karachi.

Andy Guinness

 

[Rob.]

It was near Faisalabad, can't for the life of me remember the town the site I visited was in. Morally we took the decision to pull out of that project. If you've been you know exactly what I mean by that. 

I tend to see so many places unless they stand out it's just a plane hotel site rinse and repeat trip. 

Like now for instance. Stuck out in the desert in New mexico Albuquerque. Nice scenery here

 

[rapparee]

It was near Faisalabad, can't for the life of me remember the town the site I visited was in. Morally we took the decision to pull out of that project. If you've been you know exactly what I mean by that. 

I tend to see so many places unless they stand out it's just a plane hotel site rinse and repeat trip. 

Like now for instance. Stuck out in the desert in New mexico Albuquerque. Nice scenery here

I have no idea what you mean

Were you working for the Taliban?  :C

 

[Rob.]

They didn't want safety they wanted cheap, easy and quicker to replace workers if they were hurt or killed.

 

[Zeespark]

It was damned dangerous, I went outside our residential compound to pick up a football, it kicked off an almighty stink with several sections of the government apparently, I was only 7/8 at the time.

Andy Guinness

 

[Rutts35]

when I was an apprentice we were all issued with an office done folder regarding methods of work and standards etc,

kind of an onsite guide as to how things must be done, it included some common circuit calcs etc,

I remember one bit in it where it stated that cost was NOT a reason for something NOT to be done to mitigate safety

we were doing planned and reactive maintenance for NIHE  so it may have had some of their SRs ncluded

Unless your're in someones house and they make fit a dual RCD board as opposed to a full RCBO board cause it'll 'save them money'. Then ask 'why'll you're here' can you fit the front room light and two wall fittings that cost me £800 from John Lewis.  :redcard

 

[binky]

but they want the shiny overpriced lights......that are still lettuced to fit  :^O

I learn't quite a while ago that people will argue labour charges long before the cost of parts.