3871s & cabinet lts

[james KEI]

hey all,

two questions

1 - person has an old rewireable fuse board, can't afford upgrade so will fit the Wylex retrofit 3871s. just wondering how i should cert' this?

2 - kitchen under cupboard lts. currently are the old clear glass tube fluro style. one cabinet is dead above the sink and pretty low too so i'm looking for something a bit more suitable really.

i've seen this but has no IP rating Low Voltage 2 x 20W Cabinet Fitting - White - QVS Electrical Supplies | Electrical Wholesaler

also this but don't think it has a hight enough IP 15 x LED Switched Strip Light - 395mm - QVS Electrical Supplies | Electrical Wholesaler

can't remember where the cable came from to see about putting a transformer somewhere else. can anyone suggest any other fittings?

thanks,

james

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Why the paranoia over IP rating.....

Assuming the lights are NOT in the sink I would be asking...

a) How wet is the bottom of the cupboard?

B) How much water do they chuck up it?

c) How rusty are the existing fittings due to excessive damp?

then make a decision.. Guinness

Re Fuse Box?

Cant afford fuse box upgrade........??

Or have you not given them the full real costs and added safety benefits?

Surly to goodness the MOST practical and economic and safe solution for the customer is to leave the existing Cu as is..

advise them of a price for a proper job...

wait for them to save up some cash...

and do a pukka job in 12 months time?

Why add expense for a negligible improvement...

By the time you have purchased half dozen ..

erm..... 3871's????? WHY?

Surely 60898's are the way to go?

WYLEX 32A SP Type B Curve MCB | Screwfix.com

Anyway.. as I was saying by the time you bought

half dozen at say

 

[james KEI]

I'm only asking a question.

A 240v light fitting sitting 500mm directly above the sink with mains pressure water (potentially lots of splash) where they do the washing up, wet hands. Rings alarm bells with me. IP because I don't think I can relocate the the cable, just after some suggestions really.

How the **** am I trying to rip someone off. They can't afford to replace the DB and don't need the hassle of rewiring the fuses on the odd occasion and they're old people. Surely this is the next level up in practicality and protection as at least they're more precise than rewireables with the up to 1.8 factor.

Yes 3871, I didn't know they had now changed the classification of these to 60898 as they were originally 3871 the forerunner to the 60898 and anyway why split hairs.

Who said anything about fitting an rcd??

Thanks,

James

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I was only answering you questions...

whilst questioning the logic of your decisions..

500mm vertically above?

As I said earlier.. How much of a water problem has there been so far?

I don't know why you ask for help but chose to ignore some of the practical question to try to help you?

Don't forget guidance suggest a normal socket outlet can be fitted within 300mm of a sink...

So why the paranoia over IP ratings?

I personally do not agree with the logic of your assumption that the bottom of the sink cupboard will become like a shower enclosure?

With water flying here there and everywhere.

Also ...

I still think I could probably do a fully equipped CU at around the same price you are charging for some plug in MCB's

You still got to test all your circuits if you are changing the protective devices.. So the overall time will not be a fat lot more IMHO..

Please note I did said 'IF' an RCD is needed

then if you got to stuff on an RCD..thats an extra

 

[matt.leung]

just get a 17th ed board for around 49.99.. job done.

 

[james KEI]

Ok I get that now, with your comparison to the 300 away from sink guidance. I'm still thinking of the Story/theory of Joe Bloggs standing in the bath full of water changing the light bulb way of thinking I was tought at college. In your favour I guess I could also go along the lines of replacing like for like too.

Yes I swore, and I don't normally, because your people/communication skills and they way you come across are rubbish to be frank.

Ok so they save up an I replace the board. What about all of their old appliances that suddenly keep tripping the power because theres bound to be some that will.

Now I'm thinking along the lines of like for like basis, do I need to test the whole thing. I'm swapping a 5a fuse for a 5a mcb etc. I'd the fuse blew an I replaced the wire i wouldn't test the whole circuit....

also what about the installation cost. Ok you may be able to get a cheapo board but I'm charging for an hour to swap them and you'll have a full days labour at least plus a recommended PIR to identify any problems first then any remedial work.

Anyway, yep I'm getting tired too. Thanks for your reply

James

 

[M107]

I'm still thinking of the Story/theory of Joe Bloggs standing in the bath full of water changing the light bulb way of thinking I was tought at college

As specs has said its better to evaluate the senario in the real world as it were. The advice given was sound.

Now I'm thinking along the lines of like for like basis, do I need to test the whole thing. I'm swapping a 5a fuse for a 5a mcb

But it's not like for like is it & I'm with Specs....change the ocpd test the whole circuit as if a cu change had been done & issue an EIC. After all its your back you are covering.

also what about the installation cost. Ok you may be able to get a cheapo board but I'm charging for an hour to swap them and you'll have a full days labour at least plus a recommended PIR to identify any problems first then any remedial work.

You as the QULIFIED & COMPETENT electrician are the only one who can make the call. What will you do if you put in a 6amp 60898 & it trips, you then find out the old 3036 had 30amp wire in? now you have a fault find repair cost to add on the bill.....or will you do a 5dw favourite & chuck in a 32amp 60898 (not saying all 5dw are like this but I have seen this done).

your people/communication skills and they way you come across are rubbish to be frank.

Bit harsh I feel, take a look at some of specs posts & I think you'll find a very helpfull individual has answered you initial post.

Yes I swore,

Well dont it isnt big & it isnt clever plus its not something we see a lot of here & would like to keep it that way.

 

[Doc Hudson]

But it's not like for like is it & I'm with Specs....change the ocpd test the whole circuit as if a cu change had been done & issue an EIC. After all its your back you are covering.

I agree M107, Fuse replacement changes from 3036's to 60898's would have different max permitted Zs values, also the fuse ratings will not be like for like as the 5A becomes 6A, 15A becomes 16A, 30A becomes 32A. I would certainly be carrying out a few essential tests to ensure disconnection times should be good, especially if there are no RCD's on the installation to give that extra bit of back up in the event of electric shock.

Doc H.

 

[kme]

Yes I swore, and I don't normally, because your people/communication skills and they way you come across are rubbish to be frank.

Utterly & totally out of order. There is a very good reason why Special of the Location has one of the highest reputations on here; and his communication skills are a great deal of it. You owe him a very large apology for that comment, IMO

I'm swapping a 5a fuse for a 5a mcb etc. I'd the fuse blew an I replaced the wire i wouldn't test the whole circuit....

1. Your typing isn`t good....isn`t that a "communication skill" failure?

2. You`re going to source some obsolete kit to fit in place of non-obsolete kit? I haven`t heard that one before..............

but I'm charging for an hour to swap them

AHA!!!!!

You don`t intend to do ANY testing; just rip out the 3036s, and stuff your 3871s in their place? `cos you won`t do much more in your 1 hour will you? It`ll give the horse chance to have some oats, and a drink, before you ride off into the sunset.

I`m with SL - outta here. Goodnight.

 

[moose man]

Why the paranoia over IP rating.....Assuming the lights are NOT in the sink I would be asking...

a) How wet is the bottom of the cupboard?

B) How much water do they chuck up it?

c) How rusty are the existing fittings due to excessive damp?

then make a decision.. Guinness

Re Fuse Box?

Cant afford fuse box upgrade........??

Or have you not given them the full real costs and added safety benefits?

Surly to goodness the MOST practical and economic and safe solution for the customer is to leave the existing Cu as is..

advise them of a price for a proper job...

wait for them to save up some cash...

and do a pukka job in 12 months time?

Why add expense for a negligible improvement...

By the time you have purchased half dozen ..

erm..... 3871's????? WHY?

Surely 60898's are the way to go?

WYLEX 32A SP Type B Curve MCB | Screwfix.com

Anyway.. as I was saying by the time you bought

half dozen at say

 

[user 6351]

Back to the RCD question...

If you change the rewireable to plug in MCB's, does this not consitute a fundamental change to the circuit, and therefore require the change to be up to 17th - in other words, in most cases (*tries to choose words carefully!!*) needing an RCD???

 

[kme]

In my opinion, yes; however it appears the O/P has different interpretations of acceptable workmanship to some of the rest of us..........

(And I`m NOT being all that choosy with my words )

 

[james KEI]

Special Location, I sincerely apologise, sorry

From your comparisons I can see what you mean about the EIC for changing them in which case it makes me question wether to do them or not. I agree that ultimately a new DB is the best route for safety etc bit I was trying to help them out with a sort of 'half way' cheaper option.

Typo= my big thumb on this iPhone!

Cheers

James

 

[kme]

Nah mate - doing a "half-ar5ed" job isn`t the way to go IMO - you need to look at what they really need more than anything; which may be a stand-alone RCD; which could later be incorporated into a new DB.

I think you said something about `em being elderly - there was (is?) a government grant programme for updating sub-standard electrical work; subsidised by local authority, iirc. It may be worth `em looking into the availability of such help (help the aged or similar may be a good 1st point of call).

KME

 

[Zeespark]

The Environmental Health Department might be worth contacting as well.

AndyGuinness

 

[a3]

How the **** am I trying to rip someone off. Thanks,

James

Please refrain from trying to circumvent the swear filter bu using # inserted into an f word

Thankyou and I have edited your post