Catch 22 Confused, Need a straight answer. NAPIT Requirements for Self Employed / Sole Trader

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StevenF said:
But if its not part of something bigger, i.e someone wants new sockets in their loft or add circuit for electric cooker.
Then its "pay building control"?
Click to expand...

Not quite 100% true...

Alterations and/or additions to an existing circuit are NOT notifiable and only require a minor works certificate.. Thus have Zero relevance to Part-P notification...

So if you are;
Extended an exiting upstairs socket circuit to add some loft sockets..
Or extended the upstairs light circuit to include a loft light..
Or amended an existing cooker circuit to reposition it further along the kitchen wall because new units are being fitted..
Or adding a fused spur onto an existing outbuilding wiring, to add some lights in the shed...
Or changing existing single pendant & rose lamp holder for some downlights in the bedroom..
etc... etc..

None of the above require any LABC notification for part P..
There are actually quite a large quantity of electrical jobs that do not involve any Part-P notification..

Side note thoughts:-

If there is an existing protective device supplying a circuit that you physically cut the cable 300mm (12inch) from the protective device in the CU.. Then add a junction box, to extend / amend the wiring to numerous new positions.. Is that an alteration to an existing circuit..?
But if you add all of the same new wiring onto a protective device that was previously unused.... Is that New? or Alteration?

If you add a brand new MCB/RCBO that wasn't previously in a CU then clearly this is a new circuit... But if you have a photo of the CU before & after your work, and all of the same MCBs/RCDs/RCBOs are in the CU.. then this can be argued it is an alteration/addition NOT a new circuit, even if the CU may not have had any conductors connected to the protective device!
(There are some works that are a bit grey if they may or may not be Part-P notifiable..)

Basically as a member of a recognised trades body... if in doubt I just tend to notify anyway... But on the other side of the coin... If not already a member.. I probably wouldn't bother notifying!

ALSO.. Not all LABC's operate in the same way..
Some are quite happy to accept an EIC from someone who has proved they have relevant C&G electrical qualifications... and then sort the Part-P notification out for a nominal fee...

Additional thought:-
If you haven't already enquired with you own LABC it may be worthwhile contacting them to ask what their charges would be?

e.g. explain that you are electrically qualified, but not yet a member of one of the self certification bodies as you are still evaluating which is the best option for your circumstances..

But say you have some prospective customers that you need to provide quotations for involving; (a) new consumer unit supplying 10 final circuits, and (b) an extension requiring three additional RCBO circuits onto an existing metal CU with spare slots available...
What would their charges be for Part P compliance notification?
It may give an idea about how harsh or flexible your LABC is?

I am sure I recall quite a few years back someone on the forum saying that all their LABC wanted was a copy of their qualifications and a completed electrical certificate in accordance with BS7671.....
And providing it wasn't an excessive amount of jobs per year it worked out cheaper than annual scheme membership fees!!
[ but I can't remember who or when or what LABC or what scheme costs they compared! ]

Also...
Historically.. Before Part-P existed... Loads of qualified persons like yourself just went out and started doing jobs for anyone willing to employ them, issuing relevant certificates as appropriate!!

If you don't want to produce your own electrical certificates, then schemes such as NICEIC do offer "green un-logoed" certificates, for anyone willing to hand-write their own documentation. https://www.shop.niceic.com/certificates/handwritten

so as you are probably aware by now.. Part-P scheme membership for notifiable work is an optional requirement.. NOT an essential requirement!
 
In a Nutshell
New consumer unit, extra wiring in a bathroom or a new circuit is notifiable under Part P.
Part P can be left with the householder, to apply (even retrospectively) at their cost. Thus you don't have to.
I do not have an NVQ and when I rejoined last year NAPIT made a big thing of this also. So If I do not renew for 2 years I have to have NVQ or some other mature student course for ££££'s They do not consider many years of experience...they want to sell you courses....courses = £££'s. This year I'm not rejoining as I had 3x Part P jobs in 12 months (I have paid thousands just to log a handful of Part P jobs) It is a rip off just to log a job, yet the majority of work is in hard graft, testing and self certificating outside of Part P.
If you still want to join them just do work in your own house and retrospectively part P it...otherwise don't worry.
(BTW NICEIC NAPIT, et all, are self regulating...nothing stopping you being self regulating.;))

ENJOY your work and do it well.
 
StevenF said:
But if its not part of something bigger, i.e someone wants new sockets in their loft or add circuit for electric cooker.
Then its "pay building control"?
Click to expand...
Hi Steven,
I expect there are quite a lot of people in your situation who are confused and frustrated about how to actually join a scheme.
It would be great if you gave an occasional update of how you are getting on with regards getting registered, this would help others.
I actually have a plumber working with me who wants to get registered with Napit. I'm not entirely sure what courses he has to do, but I believe at some point he has to get someone who is already registered with Napit (I.e. me) to sign stuff for him. I'm assuming it's to say what type of work he has carried out, or whether he has carried it out safely etc.
If you want I can find out the exact requirements from him, and post back on here?
 
Sparksfly said:
In a Nutshell
New consumer unit, extra wiring in a bathroom or a new circuit is notifiable under Part P.
Part P can be left with the householder, to apply (even retrospectively) at their cost. Thus you don't have to.
I do not have an NVQ and when I rejoined last year NAPIT made a big thing of this also. So If I do not renew for 2 years I have to have NVQ or some other mature student course for ££££'s They do not consider many years of experience...they want to sell you courses....courses = £££'s. This year I'm not rejoining as I had 3x Part P jobs in 12 months (I have paid thousands just to log a handful of Part P jobs) It is a rip off just to log a job, yet the majority of work is in hard graft, testing and self certificating outside of Part P.
If you still want to join them just do work in your own house and retrospectively part P it...otherwise don't worry.
(BTW NICEIC NAPIT, et all, are self regulating...nothing stopping you being self regulating.;))

ENJOY your work and do it well.
Click to expand...
Text book answer imo…. I spent £1000’s with Elecsa back in the day.

Biggest scam in history… I saw the light - I ain’t green anymore!

To the OP - don’t get your knickers in a twist re Napit… just stay away from notifiable work (if you really want to)

Make sure your PL insurance is accurate & doesn’t think you’re part of a ‘racket’…. I mean ‘scheme’ 😂😂😂

Great thread btw…. 👍
 
andyp said:
I heard there was a new one called Blueflame but this looks like it fits gas installers.

But their logo does look better than either Napit or NICEIC.
Click to expand...
Blue Flame does have an electrical competent persons scheme but I would assume they are going to be using the same entry criteria
 
jameslaurieuk said:
I had a look and they are asking for the same requirements as napit and niceic.
Click to expand...
Which is the issue you will come up against as I mentioned earlier they all have adopted the same standard entry criteria in order to keep their accreditation with UKAS
My understanding when the new entry criteria was adopted that those already in a scheme and not meeting the new entry criteria would have to have a CPD schedule in place to gain any extra qualifications needed to meet the new standard within 2 years, to date I have not heard of anyone being kicked out a scheme for not achieving this or whether it is actually being enforced by the schemes
 
UNG said:
Which is the issue you will come up against as I mentioned earlier they all have adopted the same standard entry criteria in order to keep their accreditation with UKAS
My understanding when the new entry criteria was adopted that those already in a scheme and not meeting the new entry criteria would have to have a CPD schedule in place to gain any extra qualifications needed to meet the new standard within 2 years, to date I have not heard of anyone being kicked out a scheme for not achieving this or whether it is actually being enforced by the schemes
Click to expand...

well the scams had already deemed their members competant, so they can't exactly kick them out because that would admitting that they have previously allowed incompetent members to join...
 
As mentioned, the schemes had to raise their entry standards (a couple of years ago, I think) and should all be aligned.

They also became a bit more strict with the annual assessment, or at least officially they did - in practise that seems to vary between assessors, which you will only find out on the day (unless you've had the same person before).

For example, I am supposed to have a CPD system in place - which I have for the last couple of years, with some worthy stuff completed - I think somewhat to the surprise of the assessor!

I have the impression (at least in my personal case) that if you are well organised, deemed to be doing a good job, no history of non-confirmities, then the annual assessment will be somewhat relaxed, compared to someone not in that position. And I have heard some stories about how unorganised and slapdash some contractors can be, so it is maybe these that are having a harder time.
 
SJD said:
I have the impression (at least in my personal case) that if you are well organised, deemed to be doing a good job, no history of non-confirmities, then the annual assessment will be somewhat relaxed, compared to someone not in that position. And I have heard some stories about how unorganised and slapdash some contractors can be, so it is maybe these that are having a harder time.
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%..

The CPD thing is still a bit of a grey-area at the moment..

e.g.
(A) You must have some form of recording your CPD hours
(B) You do need some formal CPD certificate to say you have attended an event or logged onto an on-line event.
(C) BUT so far there is no definition / specification of how many hours of CPD you should be doing between assessments?

The bottom line key to everything being easy relaxed and straight forward, is getting all of your paper-work/admin up to date before the visit so that they can tick the boxes quickly and easily!

Then just chat about various wiring regs and building regs to confirm you are aware of the key documents you should be using.
 
my NICEIC annual assesment last year i was told i did not have enough CPD certificates (advice only),though im doing CPD all the time even coming to forums can count towards this.
we have another one next week i think i have about 7 certificates from NICEIC,EFIXX and a few others ,we will see if this is deemed enough !
only other problems we have had is with insurance and making sure we have some 3 phase work for approved contactor status ( AC )
 
newfutile said:
my NICEIC annual assesment last year i was told i did not have enough CPD certificates (advice only),though im doing CPD all the time even coming to forums can count towards this.
Click to expand...

Isn't the number of hours of CPD just as relevant as the number of certificates?

e.g. one 90min CPD session e.g. seminar...
Is more than three 15min CPD sessions e.g. Download and read latest BS7671 amendment, Ring tech helpline for advice, Reading articles in industry magazine about new/improved range of test meters by A.N.Other manufacturer. etc.. etc..

I have asked each year and still to my knowledge they have not actually been told how many hours of CPD is enough or too little!!!
 
Murdoch said:
I found with Napit you could just print off the CPD certificate. No need to listen to all the waffle
Click to expand...

But don't Napit require a note of the duration of the CPD not just the quantity?
(It is also very easy to leave some on-line CPD accredited guidance muted playing in a background window, whilst you are getting on with other work Then just print/download a PDF certificate at the end, or once sufficient duration has elaspsed !)
 

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