Missing cpc on lighting circuit

[Sharpend]

Best Practice Guide is not what I work to it is BS7671 but as I say each to their own but I avoid situations where your apparent 'improvements' can easily be reverted hence the wording in 412.1.2 which is applicable to all works not just new systems.
The fact an individual doesn't have the funds is not relevant.

But isn’t this BS7671 a Best practice guidance book, after all it isn’t law?

 

[Fleeting]

But isn’t this BS7671 a Best practice guidance book, after all it isn’t law?

No it isn't but you could demonstrate due diligence by following its requirements.

 

[poni]

hi Fleeting ,you keep on about ADS, I would like to know how you would achieve this in a TT system? where it does not matter how good your CPC is, you will never have ASD without an RCD fitted, would this not be the same as having no CPC fitted in the first place?.

 

[Fleeting]

Out of fifteen posts I referred to ADS three times however I may have counted incorrectly so your comment is exaggerated. @poni ADS is applicable to TT and the fact an rcd is the preferred method although not an absolute requirement in BS7671 to afford compliance ADS in general terms it is not achievable without a cpc and/or an earthing conductor.. It is incorrect to state ADS cannot be achieved in a TT systems without an rcd for example a 5A BS3036 semi enclosed fuse according to BS7671 has a maximum Zs of 9.10 ohm for 0.40 sec and move that to mixed disconnection times it was 16.80 ohm, still need an rcd maybe not.
My point in all this is Class II is not ADS and cannot be applied in a dwelling.

 

[poni]

looks like I have poked the Bear, sorry if I spoilt your porridge, when was the last time you fitted a any semi enclosed fuse, I was talking about in general with new install, it would be good if they were all 5A circuits but they are not , the OP was asking what we would do, when this install was first completed, some time back in the late 60/70s ( 14th Ed regs), all a the lighting accessories would have been class two , and by removing the class 1 ones and replacing with class two, you would only be returning the install back to original, fitting an RCD and up grading the earthing is seldom a bad idea, he may not even need to change the consumer unit to do this ,

5A BS3036 semi enclosed fuse

 

[DD1965]

No ADS is not complied with in the absence of a cpc. You cannot list this as a departure and notes on Certification and stickers will mean nothing should you wind up in court should something go wrong. Class II cannot be used in a dwelling, Class II installations must be supervised.

Interesting read, Fleeting, would you point me to the section of BS7671 that dictates this please ?
Thanks

 

[Jdinduntocher]

This is exactly same position Im in.
Client is happy to go ahead with my suggestion which seems to be the only viable option as others have mentioned.

Im aware of fleetings concerns regarding class 2 as a form of ads and the

thank you murdoch
I didn’t realise the level of info in this document.
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention.

This is the same information I looked at when advising the customer I printed the relevant information and gave her a copy. As an electrician you can only do so much, some people know best and will not listen it is down to them it's their property

 

[Fleeting]

Interesting read, Fleeting, would you point me to the section of BS7671 that dictates this please ?
Thanks

Which part.

 

[Fleeting]

looks like I have poked the Bear, sorry if I spoilt your porridge, when was the last time you fitted a any semi enclosed fuse, I was talking about in general with new install, it would be good if they were all 5A circuits but they are not , the OP was asking what we would do, when this install was first completed, some time back in the late 60/70s ( 14th Ed regs), all a the lighting accessories would have been class two , and by removing the class three ones and replacing with class two, you would only be returning the install back to original, fitting an RCD and up grading the earthing is seldom a bad idea, he may not even need to change the consumer unit to do this ,

You haven't poked anything. No back in the 60/70s the installation would not have been Class II.

 

[Chewbacca]

Gentlemen, play nicely and stop the personal remarks.

 

[poni]

No back in the 60/70s the installation would not have been Class II

I did not say it was a Class two, I said that the accessories would have been class two and by removing the class 1( I don't know why I typed class three,? it was late ) this would return the install back to original,

 

[Fleeting]

I did not say it was a Class two, I said that the accessories would have been class two and by removing the class 1( I don't know why I typed class three,? it was late ) this would return the install back to original,

Accessories are not Class II.

 

[Murdoch]

Accessories are not Class II.

not sure I agree with that.

maybe you should expand on your statement

 

[Fleeting]

not sure I agree with that.

maybe you should expand on your statement

Accessories = socket outlet, light switch etc.........

 

[poni]

its only the lighting circuit we are talking about is the lighting, the sockets back then would have had an CPC fitted ,
when was the last time you seen a plastic light switch with an earth terminal? some plastic backboxes do have a terminal, this is for continuity of the CPC only, or if the switch is changed for a metal one
and back in that time the ceiling roses also did not have an earth terminal, moving on to today the current one have an earth terminal for the continuity of the CPC , the pendent drop of today don't need a CPC connection, unless they are metal ones and have an earth terminal fitted,

Accessories = socket outlet, light switch etc.........

 

[Fleeting]

its only the lighting circuit we are talking about is the lighting, the sockets back then would have had an CPC fitted ,
when was the last time you seen a plastic light switch with an earth terminal? some plastic backboxes do have a terminal, this is for continuity of the CPC only, or if the switch is changed for a metal one
and back in that time the ceiling roses also did not have an earth terminal, moving on to today the current one have an earth terminal for the continuity of the CPC , the pendent drop of today don't need a CPC connection, unless they are metal ones and have an earth terminal fitted,

Unless you can prove me wrong which I am willing to accept there is no such thing as a Class II light switch.

 

[Murdoch]

Accessories = socket outlet, light switch etc.........

well, I’ve never come across a moulded light switch with an Earth terminal so i think that’s as good as class II

 

[poni]

https://www.castlegatelights.co.uk/...-1-2-way-10-amp-rocker-switch-in-white-p46682you could find some here,

 

[Fleeting]

https://www.castlegatelights.co.uk/...-1-2-way-10-amp-rocker-switch-in-white-p46682you could find some here,

Are they Class II?

 

[Fleeting]

well, I’ve never come across a moulded light switch with an Earth terminal so i think that’s as good as class II

Lack of an earth terminal does not mean Class II especially once you fit the metal screws face plate screws.