My Book Has Been Withdrawn.

[roys]

David, I still don't understand why you think you can write a book (even if now it is withdrawn) about earthing / bonding when you are not all that electrically aware.  I find it all a bit cheeky and almost scamming.

I also doubt you got a shock from your radiator and you are just stirring things up about a subject that you know only a little about.

If you approached this subject to this forum a little differently and asked the question in an open and honest way then you might have got a more constructive discussion. 

 

[David Cockburn]

Hi Sharpend,

It's not just that it's the wording of the whole thing, it says for instance that all conductors must be earthed and the definition of a conductor is anything that conducts electrical energy e.g. metal sinks, radiators or stud partitioning. Therefore it is up to each electrcian presently to decide whether or not to earth them and if they don't and there are any future problems they remain liable at this time. It's not right!

 

[Sharpend]

Ok the rusty water in the pipes. Is it not the responsibility of the homeowner/property manager to ensure that the plumbing is maintained? So it's their responsibility to ensure that the central heating system is regularly cleaned and inhibitors used, so the water does not become contaminated. How's that the electricians fault/concern? As for your argument about sinks, well your water system should be adequately bonded and if you have a maintained plastic plumbing system then how is a fault to be introduced? Metallic stud walling, I always run a supp bond to anyhow.

 

[David Cockburn]

If you flush a system the water will soon get rusty again and the problem would return.

I am asking how you would go about finding the fault without earthing in place.

I am coming at this in an honest way, I did receive an electric shock from a radiator. Lying about such a thing would be a dangerous thing to do.

I wrote that book because I felt that somebody needed to stick up for the teachings of the 16th Edition, it seemed like common sence to me and it made finding and fixing faults so much easier.

 

[Sharpend]

If your pipes are plastic then contaminated will be minimal if you have a proper power flush as the only metallic parts would be rad or boiler internal.

You could walk around touching everything metal with a non contact volt stick first!! This will give you an indication of potential fault. Then you call in the spark who will establish the cause of the fault and rectify

 

[David Cockburn]

Hi Sharpend,

Nice to get a response that isn't aimed at insulting me.

The rusty water isn't anybody's fault it is just a fact of life, the cable getting crushed against a conductive part of the water system is somebdy's fault though and it can only be up to the electrician to sort it out. The problem with a sink can only really come from using a leaky kettle on the draining board as some member of the public may do without thinking about the dangers without cross bonding in place.

Good to hear that you earth stud partioning.

Hi again sharpend,

But the only way the spark will have of finding the fault is to visibly check the entire heating system.
It is much easier (and within his area of expertise) to check a single electrical ciruit with a tripped MCB.

 

[Andy™]

the cable getting crushed against a conductive part of the water system is somebdy's fault though

usually the plumber

 

[Sharpend]

Not really, he/she would know where to start and what he/she's looking for. I'm not saying that he /she may not cause the MCB/rcd to trip in the event of finding the fault but by definition he/she should be aware of the risks associated to electricity and fault finding.

Similarly we can not cover all eventualities of future problems caused by the end user or other trades!

 

[NozSpark]

Hi David...

I think you've got your definitions all messed up....

Cables and accessories are conductors

Radiators, door handles, sinks, screws, nails etc if they are made of metal are conductive

There is a difference

Also, water has quite a high resistance and is therefore not seen as being conductive.

Now onto your "shock" off a radiator... Was this shock repeatable?

Did you test the voltage on the radiator (wrt earth)?

If the radiator is supplied via plastic pipes then unless a fixing has caught a cable then there should be no way you should get a shock,, there should be no way for the rad to become live!

 

[Evans Electric]

I assume  this radiator still "Live"  ,  what action have YOU taken to avoid someone else receiving a shock . ?

Are the heating pipes plastic or copper ?

Is there a chance that this shock was caused by yourself being charged with static and discharging when you touched the radiator .?

 

[NozSpark]

Could you have got the shock through your feet and then you earthed through the radiator?

 

[ProDave]

So you get a shock from a radiator.

Have you even tried measuring with a volt meter what voltage is present on the radiator with respect to true earth?

Have you checked the boiler is earthed?

Have you checked the gas is bonded?

Sounds like you have done no testing at all. If you are not able to do any testing yourself, call an electrician.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

oh gosh..

all this electrical terminology is so confusing...

Earthing...

Bonding...

Conductors...

Exposed conductive parts...

Extraneous conductive parts...

Just a bit of metal that is neither conductor nor exposed nor extraneous nor earthy...

Potential difference...

Earth fault path...

etc...

etc...

its no wonder that some people get confused about it all............!!!

(and may not even see the dangers of introducing earth potential to a non-earthy part.)

:shakehead

On a more practical note I have been thinking...

due to the number of pedestrians who get injured in traffic accidents....

Wouldn't it be better to fit the air bags on the outside of the car as well to protect pedestrians..???

I think I am correct in stating that more people are injured (minor/major & fatally) in car accidents than they are by touching radiators...

I may be wrong though......

I haven't checked the most up-to-date death-by-bathroom-radiator statistics...

:C

 

[Sharpend]

I had the exact same thought Specs! Must really get round to getting up to date with the statistics!

 

[binky]

corroded metals are **** conductors and so is water contrary to popular belief, so all together rusty water is a **** conductor. Check out some basic physics before jumping to daft conclusions

 

[steptoe]

I haven't checked the most up-to-date death-by-bathroom-radiator statistics...

and therein lies the problem,

you assumed it was a bathroom radiator,

you know what assume is...????????

it may be a shower room, or maybe on the landing,

heck, it might even be the living room one, some people walk all over the house naked and wet,,,, 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

it may be a shower room, or maybe on the landing,

heck, it might even be the living room one, some people walk all over the house naked and wet,,,, 

Very true....

I stand corrected...

Perhaps we need a survey..

"How many of us walk around the house naked & wet?"

What are the odds on a "yes" from Miss Sweden??

:innocent

 

[Barx]

Wow, how is this thread not a wide up?

 

[ProDave]

Wow, how is this thread not a wide up?

Who said is was not a wind up?

 

[steptoe]

Have you actually got a copy of the latest regs ? And have you actually read them ?

Yes

No